MV750 Soviet Flathead Rebuild - Page 3

RomaDakota · 03-07-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infracaninophile

Was out driving with the wife yesterday on Powers Ave. Saw a BMW looking bike with a sidecar ahead. Eventually pulled abreast of it. Wasn't a BMW. Saw a MV with decals on the tank. It was shiny black so not a military model. Looked to be in very good shape. I could see the driveshaft from the rear wheel over to the sidecar. Had a spare tire. Didn't see a gun rack from the sidecar was on the far side. Is there a civilian version of the MV's out there? This one looked cherry but not new.

Love your thread.

Tom

Thanks Tom! My first thought on your sighting would have been a Chinese CJ until you mention the 2WD. That shifts it to a MT16 Dnepr or modern Ural. The civi-version of the MV was the K750 (flathead with swingarm) but it wouldn't have a badge nor 2wd. So the mystery remains.

RomaDakota · 03-07-2010, 05:40 PM

Ha - that was actually off my M72; some dork over tightened that poor carbie

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeep44

You're gonna need a really thick,soft gasket for that carb flange...

RomaDakota · 03-07-2010, 06:25 PM

Where was I?? Oh just a few screws before this…

Yep, that is what you get for buying a bike unseen. You know... I was riding along today thinking about this very thing. All bikes I own were bought sight unseen – SICK.

Anyway, here is a shot of the gear tower I mentioned in the last entry. The timed breather is dangling on the front of the cam. This is a shot of a different engine. Kinda crappy photo.

Here is a vid of the actual inside front cover with the breather sitting in it’s cavity. You will notice a hole that corresponds to an alignment pin on the cam gear. You can see the hole is a bit elongated. And…

The positive.. the rattle-noise has been firmly located. The pin/elongated hole is fairly easy to fix by drilling out round and using a gauge drill bit that with some chilling in the freezer and tapping will be secured in the gear and matching the same size in the breather. The movement in the front case is another issue altogether. I had another lying around, so I swapped front cases. Maybe later, I will look into possibly machining it out and inserting a bronze bushing or something. Shame to bin it as it is original with a possible date of manufacture.

MeRide – generally, it is impossible to determine DOM for a Soviet bike. I have several and there are methods people use, however this is the first time I have seen any evidence I feel is concrete.

During the fix, more orange RTV noted, missing safety wire and a missing fold-over washer on the crank gear. This is a snap after I remedied these issues.

All of this is a-making me nervous; voices in my head saying you are going to have to take this entire thing apart. I try to ignore and carry on…

mark883 · 03-09-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaDakota

No worries - the more the merrier in this thread. I know us Soviet junk lovin' types tend to stick to ourselves.
On the light - I have two lame suggestions
1) Wire the bright on all the time - hey it is a 6V bright and should almost be enough light to drive 40 kph once dark.
2) Get the real switch. Not really that expensive and the bright/dim cable control is just f'in cool!

Oh yes, many of your ideas will be expropriated for the Good of the Commune of Ridership! Your pictures will be very handy, as I've not had mine torn down as far... yet.

I think my switch is ok, but the cable is kinda frazzled / nonfunctional. I thought of both your suggestions, it is possible we suffer from the same mental deficiencies. Actually, to one up you, I thought maybe I should wire together both the low and high. Its not like this thing will blind anyone. Of course, draining the battery / nuking the gen is a consideration.

Maybe one of those old GM floor mounted dimmer switches, held to the left cylinder head with baler wire would be appropriate.......

I took my fuel tank to my local radiator shop- it has some seepage issues and leaks on the air cleaner. Don't need anything bursting into flames.

BubbaZanetti · 03-09-2010, 11:25 AM

datchew · 03-09-2010, 04:06 PM

This is my first trip into a Russian bike. I'm really enjoying it. More please.

bmwblake · 03-09-2010, 06:07 PM

no kidding. this thread makes me yearn for a soviet sidecar rig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by datchew

This is my first trip into a Russian bike. I'm really enjoying it. More please.

RomaDakota · 03-09-2010, 06:45 PM

I felt accomplished after determining the rattling noise and being able to properly clean up the PO issues in the gear tower. However not seeing a fold-over washer on the crank gear, no safety wire on the bearing cage and more RTV, the seed was being cultivated.
The stud for the points box was bent and the threads were actually stripped. Small stud, so I knew I would have to order correct helicoil, tap etc; McMaster order placed. Once the items arrived, I repaired the threads. I buttoned up the front and started the bike – yes, the rattle is gone! Time to move onto the drivetrain. Drained the tranny, final drive and reduction drive on the sidecar, inspected fluids and refilled. 20 minutes after filling the tranny, there was a large pool of gear oil under the tranny slightly to the right. After looking it over it was obvious the reverse selector lever was leaking. There is a small o-ring that goes around the lever shaft. A small o-ring, no biggie, right? Huh-hum, the tranny has to come out and opened up to replace the o-ring…
At this point, it is just as easy to yank the engine/tranny combo. F-it! Gotta happen.
Here is the tranny yanked and on the bench. Sorry for the crappy photos; I was not expecting to show them to anyone except my hangout buddies.

Interesting about these trannys (KMZ factory only) besides having reverse is what is sometimes referred to as “Dneprglide”. The blue arrow points to a shaft that is actuated when the shifter selector is moved gear to gear. The shaft pushes against the clutch arm and actually disengages the clutch – Yes, one can change gears without using the hand clutch lever! This works best shifting up with the heal shifter.
The red arrow marks the reverse lever shaft that must be removed to replace the o-ring. Time to crack open the case. The PO had been in here as well evident by more orange RTV.

All looks well inside. Pulled the small pin and back out the shaft (red arrow). O-ring replaced and tranny closed back up.
Then it hits me… I need to open up A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G with orange RTV evidence. No one who knew what they were doing would open up a Dnepr tranny and not take 5 minutes to replace a small o-ring that can only be replaced with the tranny opened up.
So in a fit with witnesses, I start taking the engine apart. My hunch was quick vindicated when I took out the first tappet - OHOHOHOHHHO!

Yep, that is the mating surface with the cam!! The remaining tappets looked the same. WOW. Who would put these back into an engine? Out with the bottom end.

For some needed therapy, I clean the case and take some time to inventory and put together a parts order.

Infracaninophile · 03-09-2010, 08:10 PM

Roma:

Where do you order parts for a rig like this? Is everything available?

Tom

RomaDakota · 03-09-2010, 09:05 PM

Tom - amazingly you can still get parts out there mainly overseas. I takes some patience, digging, paying, waiting. Of course the older flatties (sidevalves) are more difficult than the OHV models. There are some parts that interchange. Bearings and many seals can he had in US - bearings are standard types like the crank front and rear are 207s. Etc.
Here are the good sources:
http://www.ural-zentrale.de/
http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/store/
Ebay is OK, but order quantity 2-3 to possibly get one good part. Sometimes it is a crap shoot. I have been collecting parts for 7 years or so, therefore I have many good spares.
I have made some good friends in Russia and time to time I ask them to assist.

mark883 · 03-10-2010, 04:38 AM

Wow.... thanks for the pics. My 'shift/clutch shaft' is leaking as well. I didn't know it was quite as involved to replace. However, your pics are an excellent tutorial. Fortunately, mine isn't leaking too severly.
Since you're getting into an entire engine rebuild thread, I'll be watching closely. I know my engine bores are way smooth.... no crosshatching left, but no scoring either.

RomaDakota · 03-10-2010, 07:38 AM

Hey Mark,
You can pop me a photo of the leak area. If it is the shifter shaft, There is a seal that is accessed from the outside of the case. Now the bad news. The older trannys of this type have the selector installed such that the case has to be opened up to slide the selector shaft out before the seal can be replaced. At some point, this was changed and the heal/toe selector lever can be removed from outside the case and that seal changed without removing tranny. The other leak area are the clutch rod plunger, "dneprglide rod" and the output shaft. These can be changed from outside as well.

Tarka · 03-10-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datchew

This is my first trip into a Russian bike. .

It`s not Russian.

It`s Ukrainian.

The Kiev Motor Works is in the Ukraine.

The bike`s a Dnepr if it was made in Kiev.

Urals are made in Irbit...in Russia.

RomaDakota · 03-10-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarka

It`s not Russian.
It`s Ukrainian.
The Kiev Motor Works is in the Ukraine.
The bike`s a Dnepr if it was made in Kiev.
Urals are made in Irbit...in Russia.

Close, but not quite right.
It is Soviet.
It was made at the Kiev Motor Work (KMZ or КМЗ).
It is not a Dnepr. That name was tagged sometime later and is associated with the civilian models KMZ started making (after the K series).
Much like a M72 is still an M72 and not a Ural even-tough some were made in Irbit (IMZ or ИМЗ).
Made at KMZ != Dnepr
Made at IMZ != Ural

RomaDakota · 03-10-2010, 11:13 AM

Reality sets in, parts on order. No biggie, as I enjoy this sort of thing. I was wanting to ride this thing in the near future, but there is always later. Figure I will take this time to tidy up a few things. The clutch arm installed on the tranny was home-made. Nice work, but someone put a smaller diameter threaded bolt (no shoulder) through the pivot point on the tranny. Over time, this eroded and elongated the pivot holes. Time to drill out round and install a bushing.

I also decided to build a harness for the bike. Good quality larger diameter wire to assist the 6V system. All connections crimped with proper tooling in then dipped into a soldier pot. Heat shrink used instead of tape. Should last.

Gonna need to find some black caps

The crank bearings and rear seal remained open items. I can get these nearby. My source is about 15 miles away and they are only open 8am-5pm weekdays. This is an inconvenience as I will have to pop over there on a work day. This added to the fact spring (2009) had arrived, I have several other bikes to ride and time to get the G/S ready for a summer trip... the project stalled.

Shooooshalaaaala, flash to last week... I brought the boxes off the shelf, laid the major players out on the bench and began to organize.

So I called to the bearing shop to confirm they had the 207’s and the seal I needed. Yesterday, the parts were purchased. Time for the rebuild to begin... Ha, timed puurfectly, tonight happens to be hangout night!

03-07-2010, 06:25 PM	#33
RomaDakota ^OP Khan! Joined: May 2006 Location: Land of misfit toys Oddometer: 991	Where was I?? Oh just a few screws before this… Yep, that is what you get for buying a bike unseen. You know... I was riding along today thinking about this very thing. All bikes I own were bought sight unseen – SICK. Anyway, here is a shot of the gear tower I mentioned in the last entry. The timed breather is dangling on the front of the cam. This is a shot of a different engine. Kinda crappy photo. Here is a vid of the actual inside front cover with the breather sitting in it’s cavity. You will notice a hole that corresponds to an alignment pin on the cam gear. You can see the hole is a bit elongated. And… The positive.. the rattle-noise has been firmly located. The pin/elongated hole is fairly easy to fix by drilling out round and using a gauge drill bit that with some chilling in the freezer and tapping will be secured in the gear and matching the same size in the breather. The movement in the front case is another issue altogether. I had another lying around, so I swapped front cases. Maybe later, I will look into possibly machining it out and inserting a bronze bushing or something. Shame to bin it as it is original with a possible date of manufacture. MeRide – generally, it is impossible to determine DOM for a Soviet bike. I have several and there are methods people use, however this is the first time I have seen any evidence I feel is concrete. During the fix, more orange RTV noted, missing safety wire and a missing fold-over washer on the crank gear. This is a snap after I remedied these issues. All of this is a-making me nervous; voices in my head saying you are going to have to take this entire thing apart. I try to ignore and carry on… __________________ КМЗ Dnepr MT11 // КМЗ M72 // ИЖ Planeta 5 // КМЗ MV750 // BMW R1200GS 30th

03-09-2010, 04:06 PM	#36
datchew Don't buy from Brad Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Savannah - the dirty south Oddometer: 7,403	This is my first trip into a Russian bike. I'm really enjoying it. More please. __________________ On tap:Nada Aging: 3 experiments in mead - blackberry, apple, and straight honey

03-09-2010, 06:45 PM	#38
RomaDakota ^OP Khan! Joined: May 2006 Location: Land of misfit toys Oddometer: 991	I felt accomplished after determining the rattling noise and being able to properly clean up the PO issues in the gear tower. However not seeing a fold-over washer on the crank gear, no safety wire on the bearing cage and more RTV, the seed was being cultivated. The stud for the points box was bent and the threads were actually stripped. Small stud, so I knew I would have to order correct helicoil, tap etc; McMaster order placed. Once the items arrived, I repaired the threads. I buttoned up the front and started the bike – yes, the rattle is gone! Time to move onto the drivetrain. Drained the tranny, final drive and reduction drive on the sidecar, inspected fluids and refilled. 20 minutes after filling the tranny, there was a large pool of gear oil under the tranny slightly to the right. After looking it over it was obvious the reverse selector lever was leaking. There is a small o-ring that goes around the lever shaft. A small o-ring, no biggie, right? Huh-hum, the tranny has to come out and opened up to replace the o-ring… At this point, it is just as easy to yank the engine/tranny combo. F-it! Gotta happen. Here is the tranny yanked and on the bench. Sorry for the crappy photos; I was not expecting to show them to anyone except my hangout buddies. Interesting about these trannys (KMZ factory only) besides having reverse is what is sometimes referred to as “Dneprglide”. The blue arrow points to a shaft that is actuated when the shifter selector is moved gear to gear. The shaft pushes against the clutch arm and actually disengages the clutch – Yes, one can change gears without using the hand clutch lever! This works best shifting up with the heal shifter. The red arrow marks the reverse lever shaft that must be removed to replace the o-ring. Time to crack open the case. The PO had been in here as well evident by more orange RTV. All looks well inside. Pulled the small pin and back out the shaft (red arrow). O-ring replaced and tranny closed back up. Then it hits me… I need to open up A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G with orange RTV evidence. No one who knew what they were doing would open up a Dnepr tranny and not take 5 minutes to replace a small o-ring that can only be replaced with the tranny opened up. So in a fit with witnesses, I start taking the engine apart. My hunch was quick vindicated when I took out the first tappet - OHOHOHOHHHO! Yep, that is the mating surface with the cam!! The remaining tappets looked the same. WOW. Who would put these back into an engine? Out with the bottom end. For some needed therapy, I clean the case and take some time to inventory and put together a parts order. __________________ КМЗ Dnepr MT11 // КМЗ M72 // ИЖ Planeta 5 // КМЗ MV750 // BMW R1200GS 30th

03-09-2010, 08:10 PM	#39
Infracaninophile Finding My Way.. $Infracaninophile's Avatar$ Joined: Sep 2001 Location: New England, USA Oddometer: 7,506	Parts Source? Roma: Where do you order parts for a rig like this? Is everything available? Tom
$Infracaninophile is offline$

03-09-2010, 09:05 PM	#40
RomaDakota ^OP Khan! Joined: May 2006 Location: Land of misfit toys Oddometer: 991	Tom - amazingly you can still get parts out there mainly overseas. I takes some patience, digging, paying, waiting. Of course the older flatties (sidevalves) are more difficult than the OHV models. There are some parts that interchange. Bearings and many seals can he had in US - bearings are standard types like the crank front and rear are 207s. Etc. Here are the good sources: http://www.ural-zentrale.de/ http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/store/ Ebay is OK, but order quantity 2-3 to possibly get one good part. Sometimes it is a crap shoot. I have been collecting parts for 7 years or so, therefore I have many good spares. I have made some good friends in Russia and time to time I ask them to assist. __________________ КМЗ Dnepr MT11 // КМЗ M72 // ИЖ Planeta 5 // КМЗ MV750 // BMW R1200GS 30th RomaDakota screwed with this post 03-09-2010 at 09:11 PM

03-10-2010, 04:38 AM	#41
mark883 Holding up Michoagán Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Buckeyeland Oddometer: 1,393	Wow.... thanks for the pics. My 'shift/clutch shaft' is leaking as well. I didn't know it was quite as involved to replace. However, your pics are an excellent tutorial. Fortunately, mine isn't leaking too severly. Since you're getting into an entire engine rebuild thread, I'll be watching closely. I know my engine bores are way smooth.... no crosshatching left, but no scoring either.

03-10-2010, 07:38 AM	#42
RomaDakota ^OP Khan! Joined: May 2006 Location: Land of misfit toys Oddometer: 991	Hey Mark, You can pop me a photo of the leak area. If it is the shifter shaft, There is a seal that is accessed from the outside of the case. Now the bad news. The older trannys of this type have the selector installed such that the case has to be opened up to slide the selector shaft out before the seal can be replaced. At some point, this was changed and the heal/toe selector lever can be removed from outside the case and that seal changed without removing tranny. The other leak area are the clutch rod plunger, "dneprglide rod" and the output shaft. These can be changed from outside as well. __________________ КМЗ Dnepr MT11 // КМЗ M72 // ИЖ Planeta 5 // КМЗ MV750 // BMW R1200GS 30th

03-10-2010, 11:13 AM	#45
RomaDakota ^OP Khan! Joined: May 2006 Location: Land of misfit toys Oddometer: 991	Reality sets in, parts on order. No biggie, as I enjoy this sort of thing. I was wanting to ride this thing in the near future, but there is always later. Figure I will take this time to tidy up a few things. The clutch arm installed on the tranny was home-made. Nice work, but someone put a smaller diameter threaded bolt (no shoulder) through the pivot point on the tranny. Over time, this eroded and elongated the pivot holes. Time to drill out round and install a bushing. I also decided to build a harness for the bike. Good quality larger diameter wire to assist the 6V system. All connections crimped with proper tooling in then dipped into a soldier pot. Heat shrink used instead of tape. Should last. Gonna need to find some black caps The crank bearings and rear seal remained open items. I can get these nearby. My source is about 15 miles away and they are only open 8am-5pm weekdays. This is an inconvenience as I will have to pop over there on a work day. This added to the fact spring (2009) had arrived, I have several other bikes to ride and time to get the G/S ready for a summer trip... the project stalled. Shooooshalaaaala, flash to last week... I brought the boxes off the shelf, laid the major players out on the bench and began to organize. So I called to the bearing shop to confirm they had the 207’s and the seal I needed. Yesterday, the parts were purchased. Time for the rebuild to begin... Ha, timed puurfectly, tonight happens to be hangout night! __________________ КМЗ Dnepr MT11 // КМЗ M72 // ИЖ Planeta 5 // КМЗ MV750 // BMW R1200GS 30th

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