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Old 03-24-2010, 11:28 PM   #31
klarue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksbane
The problem is now widely accepted to be with a run of hubs that were incorrectly machined and put too much crush on the bearings leading to premature failure. I don't think many newer 800's have had this problem. Incidentally the original bearings in my 800 were made in Shanghai.

The chain was made by CZ in Czechoslovakia and had its spec increased with thicker sideplates in later bikes.
Both my chain and bearings are dandy at 9k miles and counting. I got one of the first F8GS's coming off the boats and have had really no issues with it, certainly that weren't covered under warranty BEFORE I even had a problem. Pretty danged happy with the bike.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:29 PM   #32
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all about chains http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195682
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:29 AM   #33
sospelotudo
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Batteries and BMWs, a lethal combination?

Disclaimer: I am a BMW master tech, however, the following is my opinion and not directed at anyone in particular, just an FYI from my point of view. In my experience, MOST batteries that are bad in BMW motorcycles seem to be in bikes that sit or have sat w/o a maintenance charger (Whether in the crate, on the showroom floor, or in someone's garage.) or in bikes that have accessories that are directly conected to the battery (Anomalies notwithstanding.) I know others will chime in about how long their battery has lasted, but batteries are consumables, with a two to three year life expectancy (Congratulate yourself on your ten-year-old battery now, please.) If you are wondering why your one-year-old bike has a dead battery, consider how the battery sat on the shelf in the battery factory, then the pallet at BMW's plant, then on the assembly line, then on the boat, then at the warehouse, then in the crate then on the showroom floor, then in your garage, etc. Look at the date on the battery label. If a battery has discharged deeply more than once, it is most likely unreliable at best. BMW now has a bulletin about non-BMW GPSs causing the ZFE (chassis electronics) computer to stay "awake," discharging batteries. BMW now requires that all warranty battery claims be accompanied by a printout from a tester that we were required to buy. It is the same brand as the one Honda made us buy. Don't hate your dealer if he can't warranty a battery that tests good; trust me, he doesn't want to turn you down. As a side note, the majority of japanese bikes come with maintenance free batteries that have an acid pack shipped with. Japanese bike manufacturers give us dealerships a much harder time warrantying a battery, because if the acid is not allowed to soak into the plates for about an hour before charging, and if the battery is not charged fully, and slowly, it shortens the battery life dramatically. Try telling that to the customer who wants his bike NOW. Remember that before loading and charging your replacement batteries. Best wishes to all, and happy charging. I will pass this thread on to our rep.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:46 AM   #34
sospelotudo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown
chain # 1 day one of my relationship with YB







chain #2





tension relief???

Technical data
Chain
deflection
Motorcycle with no weight applied, supported
on its side stand
35...45 mm
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:59 AM   #35
sospelotudo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkug

Run out of gas twice-Needs biger tank. Mabey stressing fuel pump ?

There is an update for the fuel level sensor...
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:04 AM   #36
sospelotudo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksbane
Before evereyone rode Joel Wiseman out of town on a rail I remember him saying that the standard Yuasa battery doesn't seem to get along very well with the 800GS and that the Odyssey battery worked better.

I remember this because I'd just had to roll start mine (turns out I'd left the key in the wrong position).

Sometimes children, its just better for everyone if we try and get along without all the fighting!
I think that the OEM batteries for the North American market are mainly Exide.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:04 AM   #37
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sospelotudo
I know others will chime in about how long their battery has lasted, but batteries are consumables, with a two to three year life expectancy (Congratulate yourself on your ten-year-old battery now, please.)
i've not had a battery failure since using sealed batteries and using Battery Tenders. I change them out anyway after 3 to 5 years just as preventative. And never, ever go to Mexico without a new battery!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sospelotudo
because if the acid is not allowed to soak into the plates for about an hour before charging, and if the battery is not charged fully, and slowly, it shortens the battery life dramatically.
This is so true. The good news is most Japanese batteries explain this fully and also include required charging amps and time. Very helpful. That pre soak bit a lot of folks seem to miss. It's critical.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:24 AM   #38
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This is why I hang on the internet forums, sometimes, a really good bit of infomation is offered up.

I had never heard of the presoak time for the chemicals before.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:26 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sospelotudo
BMW now has a bulletin about non-BMW GPSs causing the ZFE (chassis electronics) computer to stay "awake," discharging batteries.
Thanks for chiming in!

I am concerned about the ZFE staying up late when it should be sleeping
That's one part of my bike that I want to be sure gets enough rest....

I have a non-BMW GPS wired into the official provided GPS plug.
Along with the GPS I wired in a battery monitoring LED because I was worried about draining the battery due to accessory overload and also wanted to perhaps get some advance notice of a weak battery.

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36149

Naturally the voltage LED draws just a few milli-amps of power, but there may be some electronics that are "presented" to the power circuit from this device.

The GPS cord I wired in has a 12 VDC to 5 VDC converter brick in the middle of it which also "presents" some electronics to the GPS power circuit.

I know that the GPS circuit is supposed to stay hot for ~1 minute after the key is turned off. I have noticed that OCCASNIONALLY when I turn the bike off the voltage LED does NOT turn off after the 1 minute timeout. This never happens if I have the GPS plugged in (that I can recall) and only rarely happens when the GPS is not plugged in. Turning the ignition on and then back off fixes it.

Might this "circuit" confusion also mean my ZFE is staying awake?

Any thoughts?

Is there a place where non-employees can read these bullitens?

THANKS sorry to ramble on.......
Jim
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:31 AM   #40
RicH2
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Hey uhhhh....master mechanic....might want to cover up those intakes when working on your bike.....especially in the dirt.

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Old 03-25-2010, 07:51 AM   #41
guzzimike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klarue
Both my chain and bearings are dandy at 9k miles and counting. I got one of the first F8GS's coming off the boats and have had really no issues with it, certainly that weren't covered under warranty BEFORE I even had a problem. Pretty danged happy with the bike.
+1
20k km and no issues at all, I have suggested before that we start a thread for people who haven't had any problems.
The problem with internet forums is that the squeaky door gets all the oil.
I accept that the problems some people are experiencing are real, no doubt about it.
However I would suggest that for every bike that suffers a particular problem, there are a thousand that don't.
It's simply human nature that if we have a bitch, we tell the world about it and if all is well in our world, we don't bother.
It seems to me that the section of "Beasts" given over to the F800GS has turned into a Bitch Moan Winge.
The people who are, for whatever reason, not having problems, are too busy having a ball riding probably the only bike in the world ATM that can do what the F8 does.
As Joel alluded to, if this was a KTM area of the forum, they'd be out there finding solutions. Not simply Bitch Moan Winge.
No wonder outsiders put shit on BMW owners.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:43 AM   #42
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzzimike
+1
20k km and no issues at all, I have suggested before that we start a thread for people who haven't had any problems.
The problem with internet forums is that the squeaky door gets all the oil.
I accept that the problems some people are experiencing are real, no doubt about it.
However I would suggest that for every bike that suffers a particular problem, there are a thousand that don't.
It's simply human nature that if we have a bitch, we tell the world about it and if all is well in our world, we don't bother.
It seems to me that the section of "Beasts" given over to the F800GS has turned into a Bitch Moan Winge.
The people who are, for whatever reason, not having problems, are too busy having a ball riding probably the only bike in the world ATM that can do what the F8 does.
As Joel alluded to, if this was a KTM area of the forum, they'd be out there finding solutions. Not simply Bitch Moan Winge.
No wonder outsiders put shit on BMW owners.
For the most part, I agree with you. With one exception, my bike has been awesome and trouble free!

However, my rear wheel bearings were shot. Had I not read about the problem on here and checked them, I could have found myself in a world of hurt. As it was, I checked them and they were bad, not horrible but very bad. They had maybe another 1k miles before they would fail catastrphically. I now check them when I do my oil changes every 3,000 miles.


I think ChiTown's chain problems are because he's been riding shafties too long and doesn't know jack shit about chains.








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Old 03-25-2010, 10:54 AM   #43
itsatdm
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Actually there is such a thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561394 Probably the title is too misleading to indicate its true purpose. I too would like would like to know the percentages the "whiners," as we are loveably called. I have participated in the beat down as much as anybody. Mostly because I was tired of seeing people being told, "Never seen that before", "Its a consumable","Its your fault", etc. I don't pay too much attention to isolated instances but I do take notice when it appears to be a trend and more importantly what BMW's attitude towards doing something about it.

I am not going to discuss suspension too much, except to say, I don't think it is very good and more importantly it can't be fixed easily because of the design of the cartridge tube. For all I know BMW has changed the valving to make it better for off road use. The one thing I am certain of, is if they made a change like that, the consumer would not be told.

A good example of that is chains. There is currently a VOSA investigation regards to the chains in Great Britain. On the UKGSER webside there is at least 40 complaints of broken low mileage chains, more are reported at F800 forum and some here. BMW re spec'd sometime in May 2009. In spite of all that, BMW could only find 5 instances in their official records. Probably because dealers were giving some excuse to the riders that it was not BMW's problem.

For a period of time there was a fair number of rear wheel bearing failures. The best theory I have seen, is that wheel bores were not meeting specifications from the bearing manufactures. If this is true, the likely cause IMO is worn tools in the manufacture and poor quality control. The problem seems to have gone away, what changed?

I have seen 14 instances of bent rear shock bolts on this site. I suspect there are more, because no one is going to pull the bolt unless they are aware of a potential problem. I don't know whether the design is not adequate, improper tensioning, or issue with the bolt but there is enough concern for me to scale back on the type and speed when I take it off pavement.

Cracked fuel tanks seems to be a US phenom. My dealer was hesitant to warrantee it at first. But it is hard to blame it on the customer when they started showing up on the dealers floor that way and they are now getting fixed. I can't help notice that it took an awfully long time to come up with said fix. In the mean time, some customers were getting their tanks replaced with existing stock. You can draw your own conclusions.

The rims are wide for a off pavement bike and a lot of them are being bent. I will leave it to the experts to comment on whether they are strong enough.

Battery failures don't concern me too much as long as they are replaced under warrantee for failures that occur in a short period of time. There is quite a lengthy period of time from manufacture to sales and batteries can degenerate if they are allowed to discharge and left in that condition.

So what have I concluded in the 15 mos of ownership?. Advertising sells bikes. It is an adventure bike, so orientate the advertising in that direction.
A vast majority of buyers will not do anything more adventuresome than a graded dirt road and it is certainly adequate for that.

A smaller group of us hoped that this bike could challenge KTM 950 prowness off road. I still think it can, but I am not sure I want to invest the money necessary to get it there.

I think the whiners serve a purpose, as I believe BMW monitors this and other enthusiasts boards. The whining is from riders who feel like I do, and probably hoped for too much. If BMW wants to satisfy those types of riders they will address the issues or perhaps come with a different version to satisfy us, like they have done with the 1200gs. If they do a dollar cost analysis and decide financially it won't pay, they won't.

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Old 03-25-2010, 12:30 PM   #44
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About that electrical stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter
I know well the litany of BMW Boxer issues, and it was made very clear to me 20 years ago that BMW are far behind when it comes to electrical engineering on their bikes. And sadly, I see the same old problems repeating here on the F800.
I currently own Beemers from 20 years ago and also contemporary ones and thus have currently to deal with both types of electrical problems of these generations. I fail to see the similarity (?!) except that at the end the battery is empty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter
Funnily enough, I hear BMW are now eliminating the famous CAN bus systems on new bikes.
I would be really interested if you can back up this statement. Heard that from the friend of friend over a beer or from any reliable source? Seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sospelotudo
If a battery has discharged deeply more than once, it is most likely unreliable at best. BMW now has a bulletin about non-BMW GPSs causing the ZFE (chassis electronics) computer to stay "awake," discharging batteries.
Thanks for the official notification (no irony). Well, while we're at it: Take a ball-pen and add the following items to the list on your bulletin: A Scottoiler esystem has been observed to cause this, so did the battery eliminator of a midland radio, so did a nokia mobile phone charger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
I know that the GPS circuit is supposed to stay hot for ~1 minute after the key is turned off. I have noticed that OCCASNIONALLY when I turn the bike off the voltage LED does NOT turn off after the 1 minute timeout. This never happens if I have the GPS plugged in (that I can recall) and only rarely happens when the GPS is not plugged in. Turning the ignition on and then back off fixes it.
Jim, you might remember that I shared your problem. So maybe here my solution that solved this one once for all: I finally had enough (see above) and used the hidden aux-plug only for closing a standard automotive relay (I think I measured 80Ω on the coil side) and wired everything through that relay directly to the battery. And this finally works like a clockwork: ~40s after you cut the ignition the relay switches everything off. So far hundreds of switching off cycles later not one failure. So what that is concerned, case closed.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:29 PM   #45
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Thank you R75/5!

I think I read your fix, and made note of it then ... lost the note.
I will indeed wire in a 12V relay or get one of the fuse blocks that has a "switched" input and use the GPS output as the switching input source.

I'd still like to understand why the loads we are applying to the GPS output somehow confuse it and make it stay HOT instead of powering off......

Perhaps the GPS circuit is, either on the same circuit, or programmed the same as factory cigarette-plug and thus mis-interprets our device load(s) as a BMW-Branded battery tender and keeps the circuit alive?

In any event - Thanks!
Jim
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