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Old 08-15-2014, 09:04 PM   #1
JohnCW OP
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Who is right?

Some mates in the pub the other night were into a disagreement about being on/off the throttle in a turn.

One side of the argument was that getting on the throttle mid-turn increases your ground clearance, the opposite when you roll off.

Others were saying this isn't right because in the middle of a corner the rear suspension will be more compressed so there is less swingarm angle. So if you open the throttle mid-corner the rear is less likely to rise and more likely to actually squat than when accelerating in a straight line.

Who is right?
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:38 PM   #2
DudeClone
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i am not a pro but doesn't it depend on the rider, type of bike, type of turn, and how you entered it?

this is a nightmarish question for those with ocd. glad mine went away

my answer is if you stayed on two wheels into the turn, during the turn, and out of the turn, there is no "right" or wrong so long as you have full control at all times concerning where the bike is headed

i am such a newbie rider, though. i know squat, so flame away at my silly answer if you will
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:08 PM   #3
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What bike?
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:22 PM   #4
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I would suggest braking to your estimated speed before the corner, once in the corner you want to role on the throttle slightly. As you lean over you end up using the edges of the tire which actually have a smaller diameter. You gently roll on throttle to maintain speed and control.


YMMV...
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:24 PM   #5
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Swingarm position relative to the frame centerline will not change ground clearance appreciably when leaned over, because.....trig.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:39 PM   #6
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Comment from amateur also:
Let say before the corner, you are doing 70, when approachimg the corner you lower it down to 50 or so. Why?
If you can keep the same speed before and in the corner, you don't need to on/off your throttle, right?
But actually we all need to slowdown by the corner, thus pulling he throttle after that is the Must, right?
So, the question is When is best time to start increasing your speed? Despite the road and traffic condition, It more like depending on you; how skillful you are, how confident you are and how agressive you are.
You can start to increase speed even just before the middle of the turn, when you feel it'slow long enough for you to catch up with the curve.
I think most of the guys will do pulling the throttle around middle of the curve. No mater how the suspension works, if it increase your lean angle by pulling the throttle, you can push the bike down with your body weight or so. You don't pull your throttle suddently as you practising wheelie, you need to increase it smoothly so don't think you can not handle the raise of the bike.
I like to do increasing speed right before the middle of the corner, by doing so I can feel the bike handling my weight around the corner. For tight corner, pull the throttle right at middlle.
To me, I would pull the throttle whenever I feel confident and safe to do so, with a bit agressiveness.
Ouch, amateur but too much comment ;) well, I also wanna hear other comments to improve my cornering.
Ride safe.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:06 PM   #7
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I would suggest you do what you need to do to avoid crashing.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:19 PM   #8
henshao
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Gradually increasing throttle gives greater ground clearance if for some reason you are turning hard and need it, but more importantly shifts weight towards the meatier tire.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henshao View Post
Gradually increasing throttle gives greater ground clearance if for some reason you are turning hard and need it, but more importantly shifts weight towards the meatier tire.
My off the cuff response to this would be "wrong! surely when you apply power the rear will squat down" but, because these questions always make me google. So I did - and

http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/mo...ion_set-up.htm

and then I read

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...showtopic=3632

and then my brain started to melt a bit.

Then I read

http://www.sportrider.com/more-fun-geometry

And it blew up.


In short, to answer the question...which I take to be:

"Will increasing the amount of throttle mid-turn increase or decrease the amount of ground clearance?"

I'd have to say "Wibble* followed by "No...wait..yes" and then "Which bike?" and "Have you fucked around with the settings?". There'd then be a mind-blowingly (to me) long discussion during which I'd, hopefully, be drinking a lot, and nodding at all the right points.

Don't we have a physics professor around here somewhere? Or failing that, a psychic professor?
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catweasel67 screwed with this post 08-16-2014 at 12:21 AM
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
My off the cuff response to this would be "wrong! surely when you apply power the rear will squat down" but, because these questions always make me google. So I did - and

http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/mo...ion_set-up.htm

and then I read

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...showtopic=3632

and then my brain started to melt a bit.

Then I read

http://www.sportrider.com/more-fun-geometry


In short, to answer the question...which I take to be:

"Will increasing the amount of throttle mid-turn increase or decrease the amount of ground clearance?"

I'd have to say "Wibble* followed by "No...wait..yes" and then "Which bike?" and "Have you fucked around with the settings?". There'd then be a mind-blowingly (to me) long discussion during which I'd, hopefully, be drinking a lot, and nodding at all the right points.

Don't we have a physics professor around here somewhere? Or failing that, a psychic professor?
I must say I'm rather impressed with your research...
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post

Who is right?
It depends on the bike but in most cases it will make little difference. For many shaft drive bikes it will increase ground clearance.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
It depends on the bike but in most cases it will make little difference. For many shaft drive bikes it will increase ground clearance.
So from a raw physics perspective, what is the difference between a chain drive and a shaft drive?
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:44 AM   #13
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The rear suspension on all bikes extends upon acceleration regardless of chain, belt, or shaft drive mechanisms. Careful design and/or engineering of the relationship of the swing arm pivot axis to the output shaft/sprocket can mimimize or eliminate the jacking effect. Even if jacking is eliminated the forces at work to extend the rear suspension under acceleration are still there but are just fed into the swing arm then into the frame. BMW's Paralever is an example. Swing arm jacking is practically eliminated with a Paralever. The effective length of a Paralever is something akin to a 4 foot long swing arm. On the other hand, older twin shock BMW airheads absolutely need throttle in corners. Rolling off the gas on an airhead dramatically reduces ground clearance as the rear suspension collapses under closed or trailing throttle.

To the OP, gradual opening of the throttle in mid turn stabilizes the suspension, maintains ground clearance, and best manages traction.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:37 AM   #14
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Didn't we just have this thread?

edited to add thread.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
Didn't we just have this thread?
He got the wrong answer in the other one :p
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