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Old 05-13-2011, 12:50 AM   #631
Swissican
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Ride within your limits

I know it's been said before on this thread but "ride within your limits"!
I vividly remember the first time (right after I got my motorcycle license) I went out on an afternoon bike trip with some friends of mine...I had a cruiser and everyone else had crotch-rockets. Not too long into our ride they (the crotch-rockets) took off speeding and I was left behind. But honestly, even though I was a new rider, I didn't give a rat's-ass about how fast the other's were riding! Because ultimately, it is YOU who crashes his/her bike; it's YOU who gets injured; it's YOU who might kill someone. So don't let others pressure you into keeping up with them. Ride at your own pace...who gives a flying f**k about what other's have to say, anyways....

Ride on
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:45 PM   #632
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A 10 minute inspection before EVERY ride? Now that is dedication! If I had to spend 10 minutes inspecting the bike before every ride, I would ride a LOT less than I do.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:53 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by daq7 View Post
A 10 minute inspection before EVERY ride? Now that is dedication! If I had to spend 10 minutes inspecting the bike before every ride, I would ride a LOT less than I do.



No kidding. I do the standard TClOCS thing taught by the MSF before longish rides (anything over 50-100 miles).

For every other ride, I simply do a quick visual inspection of both tires, maybe a pressure check (a couple times a week, generally), visually check the chain, look for obvious leaks, check to make sure all my lights and turn signals are working and I'm off.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:09 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by daq7 View Post
A 10 minute inspection before EVERY ride? Now that is dedication! If I had to spend 10 minutes inspecting the bike before every ride, I would ride a LOT less than I do.
I know, I am not pro like you guys and i am slow, but than I ride an average 800-1100 miles a week, not included in dirt roads and trails. So far, I haven't had the road side repairs yet. :-)
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enigmatic_redhabu screwed with this post 05-13-2011 at 07:16 PM
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:05 PM   #635
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The coolest brand new nOOb bike I've ever seen.

Wow. It's like $2K, no vouch for dependability but it's pretty damn cool.

http://www.scooterdepot.us/250cc-Cho...les-p-719.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JEDLOMxp1Y
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:01 AM   #636
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Know that you will get hit...

Its great if you can learn to be fast and smooth on the dirt. The dirt not only teaches a new rider the fundamentals of motorcycling but it also gets one comfortable with loss of traction and using your weight to manipulate the bike.
Getting the right type of bike to fit the riding you plan on doing. Simply put, a motorcycle that fits you physically and skillyfully will be much safer than a bike you cant touch the ground on and has too much power for your experience level.
When riding in city environments, you MUST be extremely defensive. You will get runover faster than you can imagine...period!!! Interstate riding, IMO, can be very efficient and safe if you give yourself enough site distance by leaving more then normal room between you and the car/truck in front of you. I have fouind after 20+ years riding that debris is becoming more and more of an issue on the interstates across the nation. Staying back will give you more time to react and manuever clear of the obstacle. Its a very bad deal when you fall off your bike on the interstate.
Try your best to run quality tires. Thats is all that plants you on the Earth! Helmet always. Flip-flops/Sandals never.
And as with anything, nothing will get you better than putiing lots of saddle time. Although it's safer to ride with a buddy, hours and hours of solo time will get you "one with the bike" and you'll be familiarized with every detail of the motorcycle. Great riders are: Defensive, Smooth,Prepared and Equipped.


Dont ride over your head and don't get a R1 or Busa' for your first bike. You may find a Fz6 or V-Strom to be a great platform to learn on.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:54 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
< Pot full of discussion.

From what I have read in studies this seems to be the case. Peoples eyes see the motorcycle and send a message to their brain. The brain does not acknowledge the motorcycle because it is looking for a car. (or anything else large enough to be a perceived threat)
Lateral motion (weave) breaks up the motion camouflage and allows the brain to acknowledge the motorcycle. The consensus from what I have read is that from that point forward that persons brain will acknowledge what the eyes send it in regards to seeing the motorcycle. Brains can be trained.

Is it true? That is open for discussion... I believe it to be true. It is the reason why riders see riders even when they are driving in a cage. Their brains are trained to see riders.

Duck is skeptical it seems. Nothing wrong with that. It is not like I would bet my life on it or anything.
Where the f do you come up with these ideas? I understand the whole identifying a car silhouette vs bike and why car drivers typically don't register the smaller signature of a motorcyclist but saying that an unattentive driver is going to get ingrained by a motorcycle weave? That is pretty kooky. C'mon Dakez. You can do better than that.

It might make them see you while you are weaving better than if you aren't, but I don't think it will condition them for future encounters, unless maybe they run you over the first time.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:21 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by EastSideSM View Post
Where the f do you come up with these ideas? I understand the whole identifying a car silhouette vs bike and why car drivers typically don't register the smaller signature of a motorcyclist but saying that an unattentive driver is going to get ingrained by a motorcycle weave? That is pretty kooky. C'mon Dakez. You can do better than that.

It might make them see you while you are weaving better than if you aren't, but I don't think it will condition them for future encounters, unless maybe they run you over the first time.
Vision studies say it is true. Does that make it true? Apparently you do not believe it. That is fine. I do believe it.

Do you not believe that brains can be trained/programmed? If that were the case you could not read this right now. The same thing applies to vision. If a brain sees a rider due to lateral motion being applied it only makes sense that the brain would be better able to acknowledge the presence of a motorcycle from that point forward.

Believe what you want. Ride Safe Ride Often.
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:21 AM   #639
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Vision studies say it is true. Does that make it true? Apparently you do not believe it. That is fine. I do believe it.

Do you not believe that brains can be trained/programmed? If that were the case you could not read this right now. The same thing applies to vision. If a brain sees a rider due to lateral motion being applied it only makes sense that the brain would be better able to acknowledge the presence of a motorcycle from that point forward.

Believe what you want. Ride Safe Ride Often.

Its a fact that our eyes need two lights to accurately judge depth perception. One headlight coming at you is hard for our brains to judge the distance of...Two lights coming at you lets our eyes/brain have a point of referance for the other light. It makes sense, Its just the way God made us.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:12 PM   #640
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sitting vs. standing

If sitting allowed the rider more control, trials bikes would have real seats. think about it. anyone who has spent any time in the dirt knows that standing, although perhaps scary at first, is the key to progression. while you're at it, stand on the balls of your feet, not your arches. think athletics.

when I get tired, I sit on the seat, and that is when it gets dicey.

obviously, you're not going to ride your touring bike across the country standing on the pegs. we're talking about learning to ride in different positions on a motorcycle.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:52 PM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
From what I have read in studies this seems to be the case. Peoples eyes see the motorcycle and send a message to their brain. The brain does not acknowledge the motorcycle because it is looking for a car. (or anything else large enough to be a perceived threat)
Lateral motion (weave) breaks up the motion camouflage and allows the brain to acknowledge the motorcycle. The consensus from what I have read is that from that point forward that persons brain will acknowledge what the eyes send it in regards to seeing the motorcycle. Brains can be trained.

Is it true? That is open for discussion... I believe it to be true. It is the reason why riders see riders even when they are driving in a cage. Their brains are trained to see riders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastSideSM View Post
Where the f do you come up with these ideas? I understand the whole identifying a car silhouette vs bike and why car drivers typically don't register the smaller signature of a motorcyclist but saying that an unattentive driver is going to get ingrained by a motorcycle weave? That is pretty kooky. C'mon Dakez. You can do better than that.

It might make them see you while you are weaving better than if you aren't, but I don't think it will condition them for future encounters, unless maybe they run you over the first time.

DAKEZ is correct. The vision tests only prove as true what the eyes and the brain are doing. Here's how it works...The eyes see everything. They see the colors of all the cars around you, the types of trees, even down to how many lines are on the road. This is WAAAAYYYY too much information for the brain to handle, so it's main job at this point is to pick out what is important to the task at hand and ignore the rest of the input. Unfortunately, one of the myriad of items that the brain tends to ignore are motorcycles. A cager who is looking up the road for cars, is doing just that...looking for cars. Motorcycles are not cars, and tend to be ignored. That's why most cagers say "I didn't see him." They didn't. They see with their eyes, but their brains, which are not trained to see motorcycles, discount what they see and ignore it. However, a weave pattern calls attention to the movement and the driver will attenuate to it even if they are not looking for motorcycles. It's a case of simple understanding of how the brain operates.

This is not conjecture...it is proven fact. Motorcyclists and their loved ones train their brains to watch for motorcycles because most of us see them as part of the pack, so to speak. Hurt a motorcyclist and you could have just hurt your son, daughter, husband or wife. Simple. Train the brain to see them or just trick the brain into attenuating on the motorcycle so that it registers in the brain and the driver sees you.

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Old 05-24-2011, 09:20 AM   #642
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" A cager who is looking up the road for cars, is doing just that...looking for cars."

Uhm, motorcycle riders have the same nervous systems as cage drivers and suffer from the same visual issues.

But I agree that the studies I have read indicate that a motorcycle becomes much more visible when executing lateral motion. I will often do it if I worry about whether a fellow motorist sees me or not.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:21 AM   #643
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Originally Posted by terryjenner View Post
If sitting allowed the rider more control, trials bikes would have real seats. think about it. anyone who has spent any time in the dirt knows that standing, although perhaps scary at first, is the key to progression. while you're at it, stand on the balls of your feet, not your arches. think athletics.

when I get tired, I sit on the seat, and that is when it gets dicey.

obviously, you're not going to ride your touring bike across the country standing on the pegs. we're talking about learning to ride in different positions on a motorcycle.
Sitting or standing, it all depends. Some rider's i have seen, are on the peg's near 100%, then again, watching the enduro pro's here in Finland, they spend lot of time sitting down, going thru deep rut's in snow or mud for example, also hill's with lot of loose rocks on it, you will need your feet for balance, needless to say, no one goes in to jumps sitting down or water crossing's for example, it is bit of that and some of the other.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:38 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by daq7 View Post
Uhm, motorcycle riders have the same nervous systems as cage drivers and suffer from the same visual issues.

But I agree that the studies I have read indicate that a motorcycle becomes much more visible when executing lateral motion. I will often do it if I worry about whether a fellow motorist sees me or not.
Don't think of "visual profile". At a distance, a motorcycle is a dot, and that's the problem. Cars are wide enough that your brain has something to work with to determine how far away / how fast they are. A motorcycle remains a small object and gets filtered out until suddenly it's not a small object... right before it's too late to do anything.

A week ago I was working on braking drills with a bunch of motor officers. At 70mph, an approaching motorcycle is little more than a headlight from 1/4 mile away until it's about 400 feet away- right about 4 seconds at that speed. That only gives your visual filters a couple seconds to realize what it is, how fast it's moving, and raise the priority of the object from "background" to "imminent".

Lateral motion (weaving) gives the viewer more information. If the motorcycle is moving side to side, and it's in the lane, then they have a virtual "width" to work with and turn into a distance.

Personally, I put as much faith in that being an effective as DAKEZ does hi-viz or other people do loud pipes- it might help, but it's not going to solve all your problems. .
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Old 05-24-2011, 08:22 PM   #645
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Personally, I put as much faith in that being an effective as DAKEZ does hi-viz or other people do loud pipes- it might help, but it's not going to solve all your problems. .
Relying on it? maybe not ... but having in your roadcraft toolkit >> yes.

All the things you mention are aids to being seen, not solutions nor substitutes for roadcraft skills.
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