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Old 06-02-2011, 06:09 PM   #661
024
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Just checking in

Well, I just read the whole thread. Took me a solid workday with not much going on, but there is some good advice in there.

I've 6 riding months, maybe 10000km under my belt and self taught, so some of the obvious stuff has slipped by me in the past while other obvious stuff is just that to me. Since I consider myself to be entering the most dangerous stage of riding (I'm beginning to take my bike for granted, push limits I never would have before, etc.), it was a good refresher for me to read through this and cement that in my brain.

Thanks
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:34 PM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alzrider View Post
What's a practical application of the 'decoupling' effect???
Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr-4gCgPG2s

Watch and see how stable the rider's head is while the bike is getting kicked around. Now imagine trying it while sitting firmly in the seat.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:19 AM   #663
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Art of Manliness

This is pretty basic, but good.

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/06/02...st-motorcycle/
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:24 AM   #664
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Thumb That is a great link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottweiler View Post
Fronm the above link:

Look as far down the road as possible. This is a corollary to the previous paragraph. The best riders don’t want to be surprised, so they anticipate. They see a truck on an entrance ramp and move left long before the truck merges. They see cars waiting at an intersection, so they slow down and put the first two fingers of their right hand on the front brake lever so they can reduce reaction time if they have to get on the brakes. They ride a little faster than average traffic to stay out of blind spots. In short, they anticipate the dumb things a driver might do and position themselves to avoid the consequences if the driver does, indeed, do that dumb thing. The best riders are the smoothest riders, constantly moving their machines to the least risky place.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:47 AM   #665
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Props to daq7 for correctly identifying the moment of inertia as the actual mechanism to be managed. Of course in this case the bike / rider systems moment of inertia is closely related to the values and relative locations of the centers of mass of bike and rider (which in turn is related to the more commonly understood "center-of-gravity"). On this surface of this planet - "center of mass" and "center of gravity" are essentially the same thing measured in different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daq7 View Post
Or even more accurately, by separating himself from the seat he reduces the moment of inertia of the mass that needs to rotate around an axis to turn the bike.
Props to darfibulax for the comment about "decoupling" of the "centers-of-mass" which in turn affects the bike's (and rider's) "moment of inertia". Bonus points for the sea kayaking analogy. Clearly this is a man that understands his "gravity sports".

Quote:
Originally Posted by darfibulax View Post
By standing and keeping your arms and legs flexed you decouple the masses of the bike and rider. Movement of one will have less effect on the stability of the system.

It's a bit like kayaking in waves. A good paddler keeps their hips loose and lets the boat move under them while their torso stays centered. A poor paddler tries to keep the boat rigidly upright and so feels much less stable.
With regards to a practical example of the benefit of "decoupling the masses" of the bike from rider: The video of supercross whoops is obvious to those that are dirt fans. For street riders imagine riding over very rough pavement where standing on the pegs slightly (not enough to raise the body obviously but enough to get your weight off the saddle) allows the bike to bounce around the pavement while the rider's body moves in a smooth path. It's much like a race horse jockey that holds his body slightly above the horse - so that both can work towards maximum efficiency without interfering with the other.

By decoupling the mass of rider from the bike it is possible to move the bike around the rider more quickly and with greater control. This, ultimately, is the point of "standing on the pegs". It's less about how tall you stand and more about manipulating the rider's center of mass relative to the bike's center of mass (moment of inertia). Despite what some may think - these are valuable things for new riders to know - since this is how experienced / advanced riders ride.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussions . .
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:55 AM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Look as far down the road as possible. This is a corollary to the previous paragraph. The best riders don’t want to be surprised, so they anticipate. They see a truck on an entrance ramp and move left long before the truck merges. They see cars waiting at an intersection, so they slow down and put the first two fingers of their right hand on the front brake lever so they can reduce reaction time if they have to get on the brakes. They ride a little faster than average traffic to stay out of blind spots. In short, they anticipate the dumb things a driver might do and position themselves to avoid the consequences if the driver does, indeed, do that dumb thing. The best riders are the smoothest riders, constantly moving their machines to the least risky place.
Jumping back to a sea kayaking example (this one's for darfibulax) - kayak guides refer to this as "hazard avoidance". The idea is as DAKEZ describes - to anticipate potential problems before they materialize. Manage your risk. Move from a "place of safety" to another "place of safety". There is no such thing as an accident - there are only unanticipated consequences of risky behavior. Learn to minimize the kinds of things that can fuck you up and you can ride safely for a very long time. Ignore the kinds of things that can fuck you up and you'll quickly join the ranks of the statistics.

cheers,
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:25 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Welcome to the Asylum n00b. This is the best first post ever!

Ride Safe Ride Often

Glad you think so.

My bike's my only transport atm, so I ride often enough, just trying to keep it safe.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:53 AM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alzrider View Post
What's a practical application of the 'decoupling' effect???
riding off road (or on gravel roads).

when riding over rocky/rough/loose terrain, you want to let the bike move around under you. standing up and decoupling your body from the bike allows you to let the bike jump/skip around without your body going with it--which would throw you out of control very quickly. by letting the bike "float" under you, you can cover rocky/rough/loose terrain much more quickly and safely.

oh, and it's really fun--feels a little like flying.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:16 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alzrider View Post
What's a practical application of the 'decoupling' effect???
I'll take a stab at it...

Being run off the road or having a blow-out.

And, instantly changing road conditions i.e crest over and it's loose gravel.

And there's the occasional cutting the corner at an intersection across park lands too, but we won't get into that rightnow...


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=old+hi...75.76,,0,10.64


And yes, I did have a spark arrestor at the time...
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:16 PM   #670
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:08 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by towie247 View Post
Proof that chickens make excellent riders
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:54 PM   #672
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simple and concrete advice

if you find yourself riding behind a car with a bicycle on the back, a pick-up truck with 'stuff' in the back, white-vans with stuff sticking out the back etc ... overtake as soon as possible - you don't want to be in their line of traffic when the shit falls of ... happened to me ... I was driving the car, mind you



Overtake now! It will fall of / out...
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soren_dk screwed with this post 06-12-2011 at 03:00 PM
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:08 PM   #673
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positioning on motorways

I normally place myself in the outside lane (we normally have only two lanes), but close to the center-line.

Don't be in the middle of the lane: thats where most of the diesel and other stuff dripping out of cars gather and ... it gives you no room to maneuver. By riding closer to the center-line you can shoot between the cars if they come to a sudden stop.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:17 PM   #674
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Use the clutch more for throttle/traction control up difficult climbs.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:49 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motomusicmark View Post
i'm doing some research on what would be more helpful to know at a person’s start in motorcycling versus learning it over years in the "school of hard knocks".

Things like..."don't transport a bike on the centerstand. It might break the frame". Or "standing up on the pegs or at least putting more pressure on them makes the bike less top heavy and better to control at low speed".

Could you help my research by answering the following question...”what did you wish someone told you about motorcycling when you first started out?”

thanks. Mark tillack
brinkhaven, oh(usa)

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