ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-31-2002, 06:58 AM   #1
Steverino OP
Arrogant Horse's Ass #1
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Oddometer: 36,668
Is This Nuts??

I recently discovered a neat little trick on the KRS. Being as it is such a heavy bitch and "not flickable" I was looking for ways to help initiate the roll from side to side on linked turns. You know, the left, then right, then left, then right kid of multiple turns rapidly in succession.

We all know that hitting the front brake will stand the bike up when turning. So after I hit the apex and start to roll to the next turn, I gently tap the front brake. Rather than me having to flick the bike, it starts the transition itself and makes it so much easier to proceed to the next turn.

My question is, how crazy is this? I've never seen it discussed anywhere and I don't want to continue to develop bad habits.

I reinforce that the tap on the brake is very gentle. Seems to have worked very well for me the last couple of rides I have tried it on.
__________________

Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 07:16 AM   #2
jdiaz
.
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Flyover State
Oddometer: 32,111
I would be livid if I were following you thru a corner and I kept seeing that brake light coming on.

Jon
jdiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 08:10 AM   #3
freaking RT
will golf for food
 
freaking RT's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: just outside Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 31,199
Quote:
Originally posted by jdiaz
I would be livid if I were following you thru a corner and I kept seeing that brake light coming on.

Jon
I haven't been behind him when he's using this little "trick". So I haven't slapped him, yet
__________________
“We, the people, are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the constitution.”
– Abraham Lincoln

"If you like your health care plan, you can keep it," - President Barack Obama
freaking RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 10:06 AM   #4
ShaftEd
Beastly Adventurer
 
ShaftEd's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Oddometer: 3,267
Talking

Steve, I suppose your using of the front brake to initiate trainsitions may work, but anytime I have a bike that stands up hard on the brakes, I try to fix it so it doesn't stand up on the brakes. To me this is not a good trait at all. I would look at different suspension settings or different tires to minimize the "stand up" tendancy. Is that a normal trait of all K1200RS's? The 1150GS does not do this at all, which is one of the reasons they are such good sportbikes.

As for quick transitions in an "S" corner, here is what I do when I am really trying to make time. I will come into the first corner of the "S" turn hard on the brakes trailbraking and take the 1st corner without doing my normal downshift. I will wait until it is time to start the transition for the next corner and then do the downshift. As soon as the clutch is released the rear tire has to drag a bit before it matches revs with the engine, causing the rear tire to "catch" and flip the bike right over on it's other side. Of course YMMV, and you have to be careful that there is not too much difference between your engine revs and the rear tire revs or as soon as you release the clutch you will highside yourself into orbit. It takes a bit or practice.:eek:
ShaftEd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 11:14 AM   #5
cyclecat
half post a day wonder
 
cyclecat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Vadito, NM, USA!
Oddometer: 1,317
My guess is it's working fine right now, but that first time you do it on a wet or gravel-covered turn, you're going to wish you hadn't. You can get away with it in perfect traction conditions with a predictable traffic situation. But when you throw in an unpredicted hazard you'll either not have the needed traction, or you'll accidentally give it just a leetle bit too much brake .... and CRUNCH!

Of course YMMV and it's your bike/skin/body/etc., but I wouldn't do it.
__________________
'00 Moto Guzzi Quota 1100ES
'95 Ducati Elefant 944
cyclecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 11:57 AM   #6
Chrome
Who's gnarly?
 
Chrome's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco & London
Oddometer: 175
The word is counter-steering, guys.

Steve, give a gentle push away from you on the handlebar on the side in which you want the bike to turn . It's counter-intuitive but trust me: that thing will roll into a new turn just as quick as you want. It will take you a while to build confidence but it works a treat.

When you tap the front brake it is transferring weight forwards and changing the bike's geometry. You get two associated effects: the bike stands up and the suspension isn't settled for the next corner.

Neither of these are conducive to maximizing traction or grip from the front tire. Most of the time you'll get away with it but you're effectively reducing your margin of error.

On the other hand of course, I could be talking crap...
__________________
-CT-

Eschew obfuscation
Chrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:07 PM   #7
Steverino OP
Arrogant Horse's Ass #1
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Oddometer: 36,668
Quote:
Originally posted by Chrome
The word is counter-steering, guys.

Steve, give a gentle push away from you on the handlebar on the side in which you want the bike to turn . It's counter-intuitive but trust me: that thing will roll into a new turn just as quick as you want. It will take you a while to build confidence but it works a treat.

When you tap the front brake it is transferring weight forwards and changing the bike's geometry. You get two associated effects: the bike stands up and the suspension isn't settled for the next corner.

Neither of these are conducive to maximizing traction or grip from the front tire. Most of the time you'll get away with it but you're effectively reducing your margin of error.

On the other hand of course, I could be talking crap...
Thanks, I never knew that geez

You called it what again? Counter?????

I'll try that next time.
__________________

Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:09 PM   #8
jdiaz
.
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Flyover State
Oddometer: 32,111
Quote:
Originally posted by Chrome
The word is counter-steering, guys.

Steve, give a gentle push away from you on the handlebar on the side in which you want the bike to turn . It's counter-intuitive but trust me: that thing will roll into a new turn just as quick as you want. It will take you a while to build confidence but it works a treat.
Have you ever ridden a K1200RS in anger before? It handles pretty good, but if you are hauling ass and your inputs are merely "gentle" it'll just laugh till ya muster up the balls to wring it by the neck.

I miss mine.

Jon
jdiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:34 PM   #9
zero-zero
Horny Horned One
 
zero-zero's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Vigo, Spain
Oddometer: 2,378
Steve, easy on the noob, man, he's just trying to help you. He just mistook you for a novice.

Man, you have certainly been in a really lousy mood lately, haven't you?

Chrome, it pays to build a little background knowledge so you know exactly who you're talking to. I guess you aimed a little low this time, my friend.

Let us all sing "kumbayá" together now.

The SFIS.
__________________
Roberto.

www.zero-zero.com
zero-zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:38 PM   #10
boyscout
sittin' down
 
boyscout's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Cascadia
Oddometer: 1,322
Quote:
Originally posted by Chrome
The word is counter-steering, guys.


That's just an urban myth.

-BS
__________________
Who me?

boyscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:44 PM   #11
Steverino OP
Arrogant Horse's Ass #1
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Oddometer: 36,668
MSF

Says to squeeze and pull all your inputs. Shit JD is right, you do that on a KRS and it will ride like a Gold Wing. To get that beyotch to perform requires dynamic inputs. Yeah baby, you gut to muscle that thing. I love it, just wait until the last second to turn-in and then jerk the living fuck out if it in the opposite direction and around you go. Absolutley incredible ride IMHO. The times I have gotten myself in trouble is when I am riding kind of easy and lazily enter a turn, not a good thing on the KRS. She likes to be thrown around.

Chrome, SFIS is right, my response was a little over the top. I appreciate your advice. Countersteering is truly the only way to turn a scoot. I am just looking for a little help from the physics of the machine to use it to handle even better.

I remember the first time on my favorite road on the KRS, about drove the Feakster crazy I was going so slow. Now that I have gotten used to it and acquired the confidence in it that you refer to Chrome, I haven't heard Freak complaining any more.
__________________


Steverino screwed with this post 07-31-2002 at 01:35 PM
Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 12:57 PM   #12
Chrome
Who's gnarly?
 
Chrome's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco & London
Oddometer: 175
Thanks for the advice, zero-zero. Didn't even realize he was being sarcastic. :oogle

I had no idea people were so touchy round here. Or is this just an ADVrider initiative to challenge the stereotype of bikers as tough and insensitive?:lol1

Sorry if I offended you, Steve. Mind you, I'm a Brit. I apologize to everyone...
__________________
-CT-

Eschew obfuscation
Chrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 01:01 PM   #13
jdiaz
.
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Flyover State
Oddometer: 32,111
Re: MSF

Quote:
Originally posted by K12RSSteve
I remember the first time on my favorite road on the KRS, about drove the Feakster crazy I was going so slow. Now that I have gotten used to it and acquired the confidence in it that you refer to Chrome, I haven't heard Freak complaining any more.
Maybe his retinas are scorched from all your brake light action and it killed his vocal cords. :)

Jon
jdiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 01:32 PM   #14
Steverino OP
Arrogant Horse's Ass #1
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Oddometer: 36,668
Re: Re: MSF

Quote:
Originally posted by jdiaz

Maybe his retinas are scorched from all your brake light action and it killed his vocal cords. :)

Jon
, OKOKOKOK I get it. Retinas scorched.
__________________

Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2002, 01:34 PM   #15
Steverino OP
Arrogant Horse's Ass #1
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Oddometer: 36,668
Quote:
Originally posted by Chrome
Thanks for the advice, zero-zero. Didn't even realize he was being sarcastic. :oogle

I had no idea people were so touchy round here. Or is this just an ADVrider initiative to challenge the stereotype of bikers as tough and insensitive?:lol1

Sorry if I offended you, Steve. Mind you, I'm a Brit. I apologize to everyone...
Brit, Smit, what does that matter. I came as close as I could to apologizing in the above thread. Can't we just kiss and make up?????????


__________________

Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014