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Old 04-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #46
Matt Gent
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Not sure how the personal attacks help the discussion.

An expensive collection of bits there, which I guess is why it costs 10 grand. The aft one is pretty slick, and takes the load away from the threaded fastener. It seems similar to what Garry described with the reaming operation, just using extra parts. How is the silver receiver retained in the subframe tube?

The front one still handles shear and bending through a threaded portion of the pin in single shear. I never said anything was "weak" or going to fail, I said it wasn't good design practice. If you make anything big enough it will work.

My project is in the sketching/scheming stage, thanks for asking. I have a boat restoration and a few home projects to finish before I can tackle it in earnest.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:22 PM   #47
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Gent,

I'm sorry if you took my prior comment as a personal attack, it was not intended as such.

Look again at the pictures, especially the front. In front, the 20mm pin is part of the subframe. It inserts into the heim joint. The threaded bolt doesn't handle shear, it merely retains the pin in place.

The rear pin is retained in the subframe by a through threaded fastener, as I described and pictured above.

Neither the front nor the rear have threaded fasteners handling shear. You're welcome to stop by and take a look for yourself.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:38 PM   #48
Matt Gent
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I don't want to beat a dead horse here...

The Fwd pin appears to be retained in the subframe mount by a hex jam nut (above the "t" in the upper left picture). If the pin isn't threaded, what does the jam nut thread onto?

On the aft one i was asking about the receiver in the end of the tube, not the pin. The shiny piece with the hole in it that the pin goes into.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #49
Willi-Jens
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A leaner always will require joints and regardless of what you do what will require an axle on which it turns (in this case 20mm).

May be I'm not getting the point, but how would one want to design a leaner where this axle is not exposed to shear forces?
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:10 PM   #50
Willi-Jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Gent
On the aft one i was asking about the receiver in the end of the tube, not the pin. The shiny piece with the hole in it that the pin goes into.
Either axles don't simply go trough a bolt hole, they go into an engineered, mechanical fit, the threaded part (outside of that fit) just holds it into place (sorry, don't know of a better translation)
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:19 PM   #51
Willi-Jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Before moving to Colorado Springs in 2006, I lived in Germany for four years. I drove an M3 during that time, and became very used to the German driving way. The car was US Spec, so I brought it back with me to the US. Since I was used to driving it at 130-140mph on the Autobahn, I absolutely hated driving it here in the US at 75mph and had to sell it. I also had to sell my K bike, for the same reason, opting for the GSA. I waited 3 years before getting the Audi, or my license would have been in extreme danger.
I had some clients visiting my project in the U.A.E. and going through the desert on good, empty roads and being a bit late earned me a reputation...
Hey, I asked them whether they are okay and they wanted to see Dubai in the remaining time...
and that Fourwheeler wasn't really fast anyway, 190 k's max.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi-Jens
Either axles don't simply go trough a bolt hole, they go into an engineered, mechanical fit, the threaded part (outside of that fit) just holds it into place (sorry, don't know of a better translation)
Exactly. I thought clear pictures of this fact would help, but apparently not.
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:20 PM   #53
Willi-Jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Gent
An expensive collection of bits there, which I guess is why it costs 10 grand.
the base price is around 6500 Euro and that already incl. 19% GST / VAT / sales tax, which you don't have to pay for export outside the EU
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:36 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willi-Jens
the base price is around 6500 Euro and that already incl. 19% GST / VAT / sales tax, which you don't have to pay for export outside the EU
The $10k he is referring to may be from my comment in post 23 above.

Even after removal of VAT, plus options, plus shipping, plus a quality paint job, plus conversion to dollars, the price can approach $10k USD. My bank account can prove it. But, I'm not complaining at all. I'm very pleased. It's a quality kit, and exactly what I want.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:34 PM   #55
whd721
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Mac,

Keep up the excellent photo's. I am waiting for the subframe close up photos and the mounted frame details

My understanding is that in order to sell any sidecar in Germany it requires an engineering review by a government agency. I was never concerned with design strength, just surprised at the appearance of the engine mount lugs.

THe key concern I have is the "bolt on" engine subframe. After that is fit up the rest should be straight forward. Except for the finish details!
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:07 AM   #56
Willi-Jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
The $10k he is referring to may be from my comment in post 23 above.

Even after removal of VAT, plus options, plus shipping, plus a quality paint job, plus conversion to dollars, the price can approach $10k USD. My bank account can prove it. But, I'm not complaining at all. I'm very pleased. It's a quality kit, and exactly what I want.
Sorry, just wanted to point out that the base price is significantly less, even with transport included. With all options and a quality paint shop, possibly even in more than 1 colour, I fully believe that figure.

With the present exchange rates it is going cheaper and cheaper for you though
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:11 AM   #57
Willi-Jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721
Mac,

Keep up the excellent photo's. I am waiting for the subframe close up photos and the mounted frame details

My understanding is that in order to sell any sidecar in Germany it requires an engineering review by a government agency. I was never concerned with design strength, just surprised at the appearance of the engine mount lugs.

THe key concern I have is the "bolt on" engine subframe. After that is fit up the rest should be straight forward. Except for the finish details!
The subframe doesn't only bolt to the engine! It is also connected to the front frame (with quite substantial material, that part is not shown on Matt's photos).
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:27 PM   #58
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Mac

How is the build going?

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Old 05-20-2010, 01:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by garry_kramer
How is the build going?
The sidecar fiberglass and bike plastics are still with my painter, but I hope to be assembling within a week...
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Old 05-20-2010, 03:07 PM   #60
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Looking foraward to it.
Yoo too, I guess ;)
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