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Old 04-23-2010, 08:06 AM   #31
RedRupert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiablolex
good point there, I've been running a spacer (I believe it was just a metric nut) between the CCT and plug with no ill effects for about 20 K now. My original CCT's were getting a little noisy (still at spec though) and that cured it.
That's good hear. Those longer KTM plugs a pretty expensive, especially just to experiment with. Nuts are much cheaper!
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert
That's good hear. Those longer KTM plugs a pretty expensive, especially just to experiment with. Nuts are much cheaper!
its true and the nut I fitted under the cap is almost exactly the ID of the inner relief, 8mm I think
I'll try to find a better solution as these chains can last a lot longer with the proper tensioning
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:13 AM   #33
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How thick was the spacer/nut? sounds like an easy fix to an annoyin problem.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameis
How thick was the spacer/nut? sounds like an easy fix to an annoyin problem.
just picture an 8mm nut thickness, no more than 4mm
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:10 PM   #35
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:22 AM   #36
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Start-up clatter

I contacted the company who make the CCTs. They said that the first type for the LC8 motor had a 110 micron clearance between the housing (body) and the plunger. The later type, have a 30 micron clearance.

Both the early- and late-type have the same part number stamped onto the collar, but the suffix is different. So it's not easy to tell which is which. The KTM part number seems to be the same for 2003/2004 items and a freshly ordered (2010) item from Austria. Because of this, I can't be 100% sure.

The 100 micron units were used because the air bleeds out more easily. But we've found that when they wear a bit, they also drain oil too easily.

It looks as if this really is the cause of the start-up clatter. But not cam-chain noise while running.

Also, weak or partially drained CCTs could give a false reading when checking the plug to engine casing distance (as per manual) when determining cam-chain wear, as it would be easy to compress the CCT's internal spring without knowing. It may be better to use something rigid (wooden dowel) of the correct length in place of the CCT? (edit, after misunderstanding discovered: do not run the engine with rigid CCT replacement installed; only use it to help measure for worn cam-chain)

Just for info: My new CCT was 48.6 mm, this is one of the used ones (not a significant difference):
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RedRupert screwed with this post 04-26-2010 at 08:08 AM
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert
I contacted the company who make the CCTs. They said that the first type for the LC8 motor had a 110 micron clearance between the housing (body) and the plunger. The later type, have a 30 micron clearance.

Both the early- and late-type have the same part number stamped onto the collar, but the suffix is different. So it's not easy to tell which is which. The KTM part number seems to be the same for 2003/2004 items and a freshly ordered (2010) item from Austria. Because of this, I can't be 100% sure.

The 100 micron units were used because the air bleeds out more easily. But we've found that when they wear a bit, they also drain oil too easily.

It looks as if this really is the cause of the start-up clatter. But not cam-chain noise while running.

Also, weak or partially drained CCTs could give a false reading when checking the plug to engine casing distance (as per manual) when determining cam-chain wear, as it would be easy to compress the CCT's internal spring without knowing. It may be better to use something rigid (wooden dowel) of the correct length in place of the CCT?

Just for info: My new CCT was 48.6 mm, this is one of the used ones (not a significant difference):
Great info.

About using something other than the hydraulic CCT. It seems to me that a solid CCT would be completely inflexible, and could lead to more rapid wear of the timing chain (compared to a properly functioning hydraulic CCT). A hydraulic CCT should adapt according to the hydraulic pressure and is, therefore, more "flexible" than a rigid object. I'm certainly no expert on this, but is seems that there would be a good reason for having the more complex part in this case...?
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:53 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbrown
Great info.

About using something other than the hydraulic CCT. It seems to me that a solid CCT would be completely inflexible, and could lead to more rapid wear of the timing chain (compared to a properly functioning hydraulic CCT). A hydraulic CCT should adapt according to the hydraulic pressure and is, therefore, more "flexible" than a rigid object. I'm certainly no expert on this, but is seems that there would be a good reason for having the more complex part in this case...?
Ooop! Sorry. I didn't mean to say replace the CCT with a bit of wood during running, but just to measure via!

i.e. Remove the CCT; replace with something exactly the same length; offer-up the CCT retaining plug and take the measurement (as described in the Repair Manual); replace CCT after measuring.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:56 AM   #39
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Hi there adiablolex,sorry to resurect an older thread.
When you had your tensioner out did you make a note of any measurements?
I put a 2mm spacer under the cap,fits in the recess nicely,the length of the tensioner itself is 48.56mm.What i dont want to do is over tension the camchain,also the overall length of the cap/bolt is 17.50mm.Would this be the later,longer cap or one of the earlier ones?How do i tell?
This is from my 2006SM with 6000miles.
hope you can help.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameis
Hi there adiablolex,sorry to resurect an older thread.
When you had your tensioner out did you make a note of any measurements?
I put a 2mm spacer under the cap,fits in the recess nicely,the length of the tensioner itself is 48.56mm.What i dont want to do is over tension the camchain,also the overall length of the cap/bolt is 17.50mm.Would this be the later,longer cap or one of the earlier ones?How do i tell?
This is from my 2006SM with 6000miles.
hope you can help.
cant remember the exact measurements but my CT's were almost at the lower limit. I dont think you can over tension the chain with just 2 mm extra, the CT has quite a bit more give.
The idea with the spacer is to lessen the time it takes the CT to load up with oil at start up, also getting more life from the cam chains (hopefully can go past normal service lentgh with the help of the spacers)
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:55 AM   #41
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Cheers mate.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:57 AM   #42
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I'm digging up this old thread..

My bike is an 950 -03 with about 53000km (33000miles).
No problem with clatter during running, only on startup sometimes.
Engine is noisy (of course) as all older versions, but nothing unusual i think.

The plan today was to measure the preload on the chain tensioner and replace the tensioners with new ones (never done before).

Manual says the distance should be 6-11mm, i measure only about 4mm on the rear cylinder, i think. It is very difficult to actually feel when the bolt starts to compress the spring.
Not sure on the front cylinder, space is tight and again it is difficult to feel when the spring starts to compress, i can easily tighten the bolt all the way in with my fingers.

Could the chains and/or rails really have worn this much on only 53000(easy)km, or maybe the tolerance is different on early bikes (hence longer bolts available)?

Is anyone using spacers?
The longer bolt is about $50 each here in Sweden, don't want to buy them.

All opinions wanted..

/jvg
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvg View Post

Manual says the distance should be 6-11mm, i measure only about 4mm on the rear cylinder, i think. It is very difficult to actually feel when the bolt starts to compress the spring.
Not sure on the front cylinder, space is tight and again it is difficult to feel when the spring starts to compress, i can easily tighten the bolt all the way in with my fingers.

/jvg
Early bolts can give you a missleading distance. My 05,5 950 had a nosiy engine, i measured the distance at TDC and it was barelly 6~7 mm for each cylinder.

Replaced the CCT's and their bolts for the longer ones (now measured +/-11mm) and... no significant change. When starting up would clackclackclack for 1 second, with the new CCT's and longer bolts, it clackclackclacked for 1/2 second... Everything else, the same.

Loved that bike, engine was a blast
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #44
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Porsche 911's back in the day had similar issues with noisy chains and similar side effects, the answer was to toss the oil pressure fed version and replace with a sprung on hydraulic version.. Anybody looked into something like that?

Does not seem like it should be that hard... but then again nothing does when you start.. :)

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Old 03-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead View Post
Porsche 911's back in the day had similar issues with noisy chains and similar side effects, the answer was to toss the oil pressure fed version and replace with a sprung on hydraulic version.. Anybody looked into something like that?

Does not seem like it should be that hard... but then again nothing does when you start.. :)

Dave
I've seen two 950's which were fitted mechanic CCT with a bolt that needs to be reviewed periodically.

Worked fine, yet needs more attention.
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