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Old 08-14-2008, 01:50 AM   #1
YIDDISH COWBOY OP
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Stupid Kids

No matter how hard I try, I still can convince these young guys to realize that a 150 HP bike (R1) is not a good first bike. I am the motorcycle safety rep for about 300 people at work and I get these 18-19 year olds who are so thrilled about their first real paycheck that they run out and buy a bike solely on its looks. In this case, a 19 year old bought an r1, then came to talk to me (because he has to). I gave him a 30 minute brief on safety and the whole litany of the probability of him putting his bike down. So he took his an MSF course...then a sport bike safety course...then the next day (bright, sunny and dry) he put his bike into a guardrail. Broken arm, serious road rash a totaled bike and about a month out of commission. Why don't they understand?
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:58 AM   #2
hoyks
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'cause they are 18/19 and bullet proof. Crashes only happen to other dickheads that can't ride/drive as well as me.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:07 AM   #3
shovelstrokeed
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An R1 is a wonderful motorcycle and does most of the things we want a motorcycle to do very, very well. It accelerates really well, steers and handles very well and brakes like a mad thing. Trouble is, it does not reward poor technique at all well.

Even good, experienced riders find it a handful. New rider + R1 is a recipe for a crash. Ask anybody who does track days. R1's are pretty high on the list of most frequently crashed bikes.

Likely, his crash wasn't directly related to the R1 but rather to inexperienced rider and too much speed in a corner. His survival reactions kicked in and he braked in mid-corner and target fixated himself right off the road.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:44 AM   #4
Guano11
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Preventable? Maybe ---- Predictable? Absolutely

This guy scores 211 according to my "calculation" (assuming this is his first verifiable year of riding):

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=316133&page=8
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:03 AM   #5
OoPEZoO
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Guano....I gotta say, thats a pretty interesting formula. Makes me feel like I've been doing something right for the past 9+ years

'93 Katana 750 bought at 20 (750*4)/(20*1) = 150

'97 GSXR 1100 bought at 22 (1100*4)/(22*2) = 100

'00 R1100RT bought at 26 (1100*2)/(26*6) = 14.1

Now still with the RT (1100*2)/(29*9) = 8.4

Into the single digits before 30......I'm starting to feel old. Anyone got a ZX1400 for sale
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:23 AM   #6
extrashot
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Heh.... w/ that formula, I get a 0.7

70cc, single cylinder; 40 yrs old, 2.5 years riding.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:48 AM   #7
odiestien
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I'm at 2.3 with my GSA. Wow, I'm doin' good here huh?
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:19 AM   #8
BobFV1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelstrokeed
Ask anybody who does track days. R1's are pretty high on the list of most frequently crashed bikes.
DAMHIK!

We ain't all Valentino Rossi! Even with a sticky, warmed up 190 rear, that thing will walk away from you unless you exercise a LOT of throttle control - a skill most novice riders lack.

Makes me think graduated licensing has some merit.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:58 AM   #9
dwoodward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YIDDISH COWBOY
In this case, a 19 year old bought an r1, then came to talk to me (because he has to). I gave him a 30 minute brief on safety and the whole litany of the probability of him putting his bike down. So he took his an MSF course...then a sport bike safety course...then the next day (bright, sunny and dry) he put his bike into a guardrail. Broken arm, serious road rash a totaled bike and about a month out of commission. Why don't they understand?
Talked to him yet? Bet it "wasn't his fault". Just ask him.

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Old 08-14-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
squids leap
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Now I feel old also....

'92 EX 500 at 14yrs old (500*2)/(14*1) = 71

'92 600 F2 at 16yrs old (600*4)/(16*2) = 75

'02 600 F4i at 22yrs old (600*4)/(22*8) = 13.6

Now, '06 TE610 at 28yrs old (577*1)/(28*14) = 1.4

2cents: I've never had a bad crash, never broken a bone from a motorcycle, I credit my dads love of racing and his passing on good genes and being a great coach for my passing on to a more "adult" way of riding. From an early age I knew to win you have to finish, blind haul ass fury will almost alwasy get you in the end, but a good feel for what is going on in regards to traction and thottle control can have you going very fast around a track with a lot less effort. I think if more younger people looked at sportbike riding as a learned skill that boarders on an art form, (I also feel the same way about dirt riding) maybe then they would crash less and have less severe get offs.

I'm not saying not to have fun, I"m not even saying "dont drag knees on the street" that would be very hipocritical of me, but I am saying do it right. A big part of doing it right is inspecting the road for oil, dirt, water, pebbles, pot holes, anything that may have been put there since you last hit that turn. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I've hit that corner a million times but today there was oil in the road".......and of course still thinking it was the oil's fault that they messed up their nice bike.

My 2 cents turned into a quarter....sorry I get long winded at my old age

Quote:
Originally Posted by OoPEZoO
Guano....I gotta say, thats a pretty interesting formula. Makes me feel like I've been doing something right for the past 9+ years

'93 Katana 750 bought at 20 (750*4)/(20*1) = 150

'97 GSXR 1100 bought at 22 (1100*4)/(22*2) = 100

'00 R1100RT bought at 26 (1100*2)/(26*6) = 14.1

Now still with the RT (1100*2)/(29*9) = 8.4

Into the single digits before 30......I'm starting to feel old. Anyone got a ZX1400 for sale
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:51 PM   #11
tcourdin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelstrokeed

Likely, his crash wasn't directly related to the R1 but rather to inexperienced rider and too much speed in a corner. His survival reactions kicked in and he braked in mid-corner and target fixated himself right off the road.
Exactly. I've got a few thousand miles under my belt riding crotch rockets, and during that time I've seen so many newbs fly off corners it's not even funny. You've GOT to know that bike is so much more capable than you and just not panic. I've had a few "holy shit" moments and luckily never been down on rocket.

I've enjoyed rockets for 15 years now and just recently sold my CBR1000 due to the young kids just like this one giving a bad image, I'm much happier out on my own on my GS now, and police dont check me out all the time either.

At least the kids ok, and hopefully learned his lesson.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:15 PM   #12
ElectricDave
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Scoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guano11
This guy scores 211 according to my "calculation" (assuming this is his first verifiable year of riding):

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=316133&page=8
That's a very helpful formula! I'm curious how one would rate a Vectrix Electric Scooter. Simple application is zero risk (no cc's, no cylinders), but of course the key would be to figure out what the approximate equivalents are.

Vectrix customer relations claims "In terms of torque and acceleration it has the acceleration of a 600 cc bike. In terms of overall riding the bike is around that of a 300 cc bike." Would the "overall 300" be more pertinent to the safety rating's displacement measure than the "torque/acceleration 600"? Rating the cylinders seems still more challenging... 0-30 in 3.6s, 0-50 in 6.8. Very strong off the line torque (65 Nm @ 0 MPH), but its 28 peak HP can't be sustained (max 5.1HP continous). Top speed limited to 62MPH, and it won't go far at that speed before needing a recharge (i.e. no 85MPH get-offs). The sucker weighs 515lbs, but the bulk of the weight (batteries) is lower than in a typical bike, helping stability.

So would this seem closer to a 2 cylinder or a 4, or would you split the difference and rate it as a "3"? Still being a n00b, I don't have the experience needed to map the electric's characteristics to traditional engine measures, especially as they apply to the safety formula.
It'd be very helpful to get a sense of the estimated risks of a Vectrix per the formula linked to above, and how appropriate such a vehicle would be for a new rider.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

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Old 08-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #13
shovelstrokeed
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I like that formula, I come out at 1.37.
(1136*4)/(66*50)
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:34 PM   #14
shovelstrokeed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward
Talked to him yet? Bet it "wasn't his fault". Just ask him.

I'm bettin' on something like "I got half way through the corner and the bike just wouldn't turn."

Classic stiff armed, target fixated crash.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:42 PM   #15
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that formula is a bit screwy if you go outside his thoughts.

example me now:

(750cc * 2cyl) / (25yr *7yr) = 8.57

now, thats me with my modded ducati superbike. This is me on a less powerful sportbike:

(750cc * 4cyl) / (25yr *7yr) = 17.14

TWICE the risk because of 4 more cyls??? that doesnt make sense.

heres a bike im EXTREMELY likely to wreck.. my CR500... 500cc 2stroke:


(500cc * 1cyl) / (25yr *7yr) = 2.857

safer?!?! yea right!!!


lastly, lets try bumping me DOWN from the Ducati to a more common 600...

(600cc * 4cyl) / (25yr *7yr) = 13.71




yeeeea..... that forumla, while neat, is very screwy for the real world....

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