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Old 05-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #46
Pezz_gs OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerboff
Read my post - I didnt say there was no merit in the design - I said that Paul didnt seem to see any merit in triangulation.

You quote Tony Foales name - if you have read any of his work you will know that he is is a great advocate of triangulation as a way of producing a light and rigid structure . Not that I am a great fan of Tony------------!.

There will always be differing opinions on frame design - Bert Hopwood was offered the featherbed frame by the McAndless? brothers before it was taken up by Norton but rejected the design as it seemed to contradict sound engineering principles. It might well have , but it still worked OK

I have never felt the need to reinvent the wheel, or motorcycle frame.
At the sort of power outputs we are talking about here the configuration is relatively unimportant - as long as it holds the wheels apart and relatively in line and flexes a little in a controlled and predictable fashion it will do the job.
I have never said that Pauls frame would not do that, I have simply said that concentrating all the frame stresses into one massive unsupported member is not the way I would go about it.

And whether you think that opinion is right or wrong, I consider that am entitled to state it, as long as I don't use the forum as a vehicle to personally abuse the designer.

So if anyone considers my critique of the his frame amounts to personal abuse of Mr Rooney , my sincerest apologies.

And I look forward to somebody getting back to the topic and telling me exactly what problem the frame is trying to solve and what it does better than a stock or gusseted / braced stock frame, which after all was good enough to win the PD three times.
Beemerboff,

Yes you are entitled to your opinion and to express it, and I acknowlegde that it comes from your perspective expressed above, 'I have never felt the need to reinvent the wheel, or motorcycle frame'.

I have Tony Foale's book and both volumes of John Bradleys - The Racing Motorcycle. A lot of good information in both.

Paul has come at it from a different direction and it is original. Paul has built numerous custom bikes over the years and there are pictures of some in the earlier pages of this thread. He knows what he is doing.

Is there a need? Well he has at least 4 on order with a lot more interested as well. Could a stock braced frame work, yes they do and effectively. However it is not a modified 'stock' frame, and thats the appeal. A lot of people want their bikes to be different. Just need to look at the custom Harleys being built. Dont start me on some of those designs

Best of all Paul has created a design applicable to Airhead engines, something that the 'Frame designers' havent done. The moving of the weight lower down. The relocation of the airbox into the frame and allows the battery to sit lower. Ease of maintenance. There are a lot of good reasons, but as Stagehand says: Its cool as hell. It is what your bike makes you feel like. I personally like to build and modify and can appreciate the effort and time put in to build a bike like this.

Lornce, I will ask Paul for a price for you.

As for steering head angles, it interrelates with offset and trail. As Lornce has said: Steering Geometry: Rake appears to be more aggressive than BMW standard. BMW's are comfy and stable, but perhaps a bit too conservative in the geometry department for truly aggressive riding. (we could start a whole other thread on the attributes of various steering geometries and their effects/benefits with lots of references to Sir Foale et al ) A frame with more structural integrity would encourage a more spirited pace and it'd be nice to have steering geometry to go with it. Paul appears to deliver on that.

These bikes change direction very well and much better than the frames running stock geometry.

Below is one he built for a customer with short legs. Lots of small changes to this bike. I really like this one too! I have a pic of an 1150 GS he built a frame for too somewhere here

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Old 05-14-2010, 06:21 PM   #47
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Here it is in the background, it handle s extremely well, and runs 40mm bings.

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Old 05-14-2010, 09:41 PM   #48
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I bet that thing would work really well with a GSXR front end on it and some sticky rubber front and rear.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:36 AM   #49
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Most every modern perimeter frame bike uses the engine as a stressed member, with the swinging arm pivoting on the rear of the engine/gearbox housing, the stacked gearbox so common nowadays helps make a compact and stiff cube .
Sort of like Vincent did around 70 years ago.
Pezz dont think the washing line will benefit much from 40 mm bings but the triangulation looks OK.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezz_gs
Here it is in the background, it handle s extremely well, and runs 40mm bings.

Now your talking. Carbs and getting rid of telever forks - I can see some sense in that, still a very heavy engine though.
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:26 AM   #51
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What engine is in the blue bike?
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:38 AM   #52
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ahem

Hey Brotown, my ex bike! (below) tis reborn. You know I'm still pissed with you about that ebay win of yours!!!

Ok lets not beat each other up over this, just a bit of genuine interest and inquiry. Sure, the 'new' Rooney frame is lighter and stronger and perhaps...spend some time on euro classic BMW racing forums and you will see other similar solutions, this one I know has admiration owing to egli. The proof is in the pudding and for us lucky few whom have tasted it I say to you....BRRRRRROOOOOOOM!!!

Anyway, lets not get hot under the collar. We are all passionate about our rides and riding. And that...is as it should be.

Stay upright..Stu

hmmm...How about a Rooney bike rally in Tassie, we must be reaching critical mass. We can get Paul to talk...ya'll know he loves public speaking!! I've got the place (and the wine)...

PPS the euro just got me the Acerbis 43l tank and leather tool roll landed in Oz for under $1200 (from HPN direct)..lowest its been in a while...jump on the good aussie dollar good fellows...not often we are in this position.

Oh brotown, did I mention you suck.

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Tanami screwed with this post 05-15-2010 at 02:21 PM
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:19 AM   #53
when the road bends
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wow pauls work is awesome

I understand that the new frame does not create a stressed member condition with the engine. The only question i have, is the engine going to be ok hanging like that? The engine is now under tension and so could the hoist points on the block fail or are they reinforced? I dont have my GS near me since i am travelling, but if I remember right the engine actually sits on the frame and doesnt hang from it. Anyone can help with my confusion?
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:23 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerboff
Most every modern perimeter frame bike uses the engine as a stressed member, with the swinging arm pivoting on the rear of the engine/gearbox housing, the stacked gearbox so common nowadays helps make a compact and stiff cube .
Ermmn, yeah, okay.

What does any of that have to do with a custom frame designed for an airhead motor?

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Old 05-15-2010, 01:50 PM   #55
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I dont have my GS near me since i am travelling
For shame!
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:08 PM   #56
when the road bends
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agreed but I have sold my time to a day job


so the oem motor sits, not hangs ay?
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:59 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Brink
What engine is in the blue bike?
1150 some sort of - never asked if it was a GS or somewhat else.
Graham offered me several times to take her for a spin - but I turned him down for two reasons. First of all it scares me, second I would have to order one from Paul. I've seen probably all the photos available during birth to present day - piece of art and it works. It is as stated still a heavy bike - but compared to what, it's half-brother the 1150GS PD Camel or any dirt bike?
Graham have four Rooney bikes, I've seen them all and are impressed.

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Old 05-16-2010, 08:39 AM   #58
Beemerboff
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Someone posted a picture of a modern perimeter frame, presumably in support of the design of Pauls frame.

I was just reminding folks that even with the massive aluminum box section top frame other designers still find it necessary to re arrange the configeration of the engine and gear box to get a crankcase unit which is rigid enough to support the top rail.

The point is that, if we accept what others have said and the engine in the Rooney frame has no part in the structural strength , then we have a massive contradiction between the Rooney frame and virtually every other spine frame in existance , as they all depend on the crankcase as a structural member.
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:58 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezz_gs

Kind of reminds me of the Team Incomplete bike:



I like em both! Out of the box thinking for sure!
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:45 PM   #60
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Just a little update regarding the Rooney bike. They left Vladivostok several weeks ago, and have worked their way across the Gobi Desert, (With great difficulty apparently!), LOTS of river crossings/mud/vertical ups and downs. Chris says it was without a doubt his toughest ride ever....
So, out of Mongolia, into Russia, and just today crossing into Kasakstan. So far nothing has broken, or failed. Plenty of vodka has been consumed.
If you like, you can follow the boys. www.wherethefcukarewe.blogspot.com

Somewhere in Mongolia...
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