ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2004, 08:13 PM   #1
seh750 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
seh750's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, OR
Oddometer: 936
Question Electrical strangeness - please help

I just installed a set of Dual-Star heated grips with a Heat-Troller variable controller. I have the exact same setup on my FJR and it works great there.

On the 950, I have it wired through the switched accessory lead (number 1, I believe). When the bike is turned on, but not running everything works great. The light blinks slowly when the Heat-Troller knob is turned to the left and blinks progressively faster as the knob is turned to the right. Seems to have an appropriate effect on heat.

When the bike is running, the Heat Troller seems to have three states: off, during the first 1/3 of rotation, hot during the second 1/3 of rotation, and blow the fuses when turned most of the way to the right.

The Heat Troller is powered and grounded with the accessory leads. The grips are wired in parallel with the white leads going to the white wire from the Heat Troller and the blue and red leads from the grips together going to the purple wire from the Heat Troller. This is the setup that is suggested on www.FJRTech.com and the same setup I used on my FJR where it works great.

Any suggestions?!?!?
__________________
Stephen
11 KTM SMT 990
07 Suzuki GSXR750
04 BMW R1150RT (Project, for sale)
seh750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2004, 08:57 PM   #2
k7
Ancien cyclist
 
k7's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
Oddometer: 17,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750
I just installed a set of Dual-Star heated grips with a Heat-Troller variable controller. I have the exact same setup on my FJR and it works great there.

On the 950, I have it wired through the switched accessory lead (number 1, I believe). When the bike is turned on, but not running everything works great. The light blinks slowly when the Heat-Troller knob is turned to the left and blinks progressively faster as the knob is turned to the right. Seems to have an appropriate effect on heat.

When the bike is running, the Heat Troller seems to have three states: off, during the first 1/3 of rotation, hot during the second 1/3 of rotation, and blow the fuses when turned most of the way to the right.

The Heat Troller is powered and grounded with the accessory leads. The grips are wired in parallel with the white leads going to the white wire from the Heat Troller and the blue and red leads from the grips together going to the purple wire from the Heat Troller. This is the setup that is suggested on www.FJRTech.com and the same setup I used on my FJR where it works great.

Any suggestions?!?!?
I think the accessory wires are fused for only 5 watts. I know nothing about those grips but if you're blowing fuses, your electrical load is more than the fuse can handle. Either run different (larger) wire with larger fuses or get a multimeter and measure the resistance at different points. Share your findings and we'll go to the next step.
__________________
Cheers,
Gerry
PHX AZ
k7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2004, 09:20 PM   #3
Stephen
Beastly Adventurer
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Oddometer: 3,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by k7lro
I think the accessory wires are fused for only 5 watts...
Five amps.

That's 60 watts at 12 volts, 70 at 14.

Does DualStar give a consumption figure for the grips? It's likely in watts, so we'll have to do the math.
Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2004, 09:38 PM   #4
pfb
Riding, not skiing.
 
pfb's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Boulder|Denver|Winter Park
Oddometer: 5,263
I can't imagine that the wiring to the accessory port, regardless of the fuse size, is heavy enough gauge for electric grips.

Run it right to the battery, with it's own dedicated fuse.
__________________
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯
950 Adventure 950 Super Enduro 450 XC-W Six Days
pfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2004, 10:28 PM   #5
seh750 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
seh750's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, OR
Oddometer: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
Five amps.

That's 60 watts at 12 volts, 70 at 14.

Does DualStar give a consumption figure for the grips? It's likely in watts, so we'll have to do the math.
Dual Star quotes the grips to use 36W...that's only 3 amps, so the wiring and fuse should be sufficient.

Even if the rating of the wiring and fuse were a little low for this application, that doesn't explain the change in behavior when the bike is running vs when it is not running...I've never encountered that before. I certainly could rewire it to the battery and use the accessory circuit to trigger a relay if people think that will help.
__________________
Stephen
11 KTM SMT 990
07 Suzuki GSXR750
04 BMW R1150RT (Project, for sale)
seh750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:29 AM   #6
Reformed DucFlogger
Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2
 
Reformed DucFlogger's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Peoples Republic Of Canuckistan
Oddometer: 1,445
Fuses

The 5 amp connections under the 'glove box' ARE NOT dedicated connections to the battery.

If you look at your wiring diagram (drop me a PM with an email address and I can send you a color pick from repair manual), the connections are, shall we say, convoluted on the battery side of that fuse box.

Fuse 1 (switched) shares the same switched 12v as the headlight, unswitched with the clock and there is some debate as to what role the voltage regulator plays in these connections.

In short, it isn't just a clean switched straight run to the battery at either of those connections.

I run a heated vest of the unswitched circuit with a Aerostitch heat controller with no issues.

My guesses would be a combination of:
---------------------------------------------
1. The 5amp rating for that connection is optimistic at best. Don't the DS's some with two watt ratings (high/low) and what amount of current does the heat troller draw? It's not a simple resistance-based controller right?

2. Something is coming on when the bike is started that either shares that connection that is causing issues with the heat troller.

3. The voltage regulator is somehow coming into play and fucking up your heat troller's little mind when the bike is running.

Options
--------

1. Just run nice fat, heat- resistant cables to the battery via a relay controlled by that switched circuit.
2. Try connecting to the unswitched circuit - note: the ones on mine were mislabeled (#1 ws #2, etc).
3. Disconnect the heatroller and just go straight with a high/low switch and see if the same problem occurs.

Curious ...
__________________
"...who gives a rat fornication?"
Reformed DucFlogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:39 AM   #7
seh750 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
seh750's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, OR
Oddometer: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed DucFlogger
what amount of current does the heat troller draw? It's not a simple resistance-based controller right?
I don't know how much current it draws although I certainly could test. No, it's not a simple resistance-based controller, I believe it's a essentially high-speed on-off switch...but that's based on memory, so don't quote me.

Quote:
1. Just run nice fat, heat- resistant cables to the battery via a relay controlled by that switched circuit.
This seems to be the quickest way to salvation, so that's what I'll do. I have a second power outlet running straight to the battery already.

Quote:
2. Try connecting to the unswitched circuit - note: the ones on mine were mislabeled (#1 ws #2, etc).
I tested the circuits so I'm positive which is switched and which is unswitched.

Quote:
3. Disconnect the heatroller and just go straight with a high/low switch and see if the same problem occurs.
That'd be just as much work as running the whole shebang to the battery, so the battery it is.


Thanks for the suggestions everone!
__________________
Stephen
11 KTM SMT 990
07 Suzuki GSXR750
04 BMW R1150RT (Project, for sale)
seh750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:53 AM   #8
Reformed DucFlogger
Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2
 
Reformed DucFlogger's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Peoples Republic Of Canuckistan
Oddometer: 1,445
Grips

I was just curious how it worked on the unswitched circuit - I guess would be the same as the switched with the bike off.

I thought as much on the heat troller, most manufacturers have moved away from the older resistance-based controllers.

I'd guess something in the power delivery when the bike is running is giving your heat troller circuitry fits.

It is an odd one though.
__________________
"...who gives a rat fornication?"
Reformed DucFlogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:58 AM   #9
FarmerRick
Beastly Adventurer
 
FarmerRick's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Kirkland, TN
Oddometer: 1,307
According to my wiring diagram for my Dual-Stars, the Red wire is the Ground Wire for each grip while the White is for High and the Blue is for low setting. In an earlier post I thought you said you had the Blue and Red goint to the Purple on the Heat-troller? Seems to me you are gonna have a short somewhere with that setup.

I am using the regular High/Low Switch but if I were gonna use the Heat-troller, I'd use the White(High) wire to the Purple on the Troller and make sure the ground is set up correctly.

It is only a 3 amp draw, so... something in the wiring or the Heat-Troller is wrong. Having dealt with Heat-Troller on my Gerbing clothes, I'm VERY CONFIDENT that it is not their equipment (okay the odds are like 1 in 10000 that it is).

Is that the REAL Heat-Troller or the chinese knock off?

Rick
FarmerRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:18 PM   #10
wesfnw
portland,or
 
wesfnw's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Oddometer: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750
This seems to be the quickest way to salvation, so that's what I'll do. I have a second power outlet running straight to the battery already.

That'd be just as much work as running the whole shebang to the battery, so the battery it is.

Thanks for the suggestions everone!
...but...if you wire them to the battery...what will happen
when you leave them ON overnight?
and you WILL leave them on...I know
wes
wesfnw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:22 PM   #11
Shuffler
Getting a grip...
 
Shuffler's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Niwot CO
Oddometer: 1,642
I just installed the Dual Stars a while back and went w/o the HeatTroller unit. I run the switched accessory plug, since I don't want my battery to run down in case I forget to flip the switch to 'off' when I park the bike. The Hi/Lo settings are great so far. No electrical problems or quirkiness to speak of.
__________________
________________________________
AMA | COHVCO | TPA | NCTR | BRC
Niwot Synthetics
KTM 950A | KTM 300XCW | BMW R1100RT
Shuffler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 06:23 PM   #12
k7
Ancien cyclist
 
k7's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
Oddometer: 17,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
Five amps.

That's 60 watts at 12 volts, 70 at 14.

Does DualStar give a consumption figure for the grips? It's likely in watts, so we'll have to do the math.
Thanks for the correction... 5A is what I meant to say. Sorry.
__________________
Cheers,
Gerry
PHX AZ
k7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 08:14 PM   #13
Greg Minor
The Trespasser
 
Greg Minor's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Escondido Ca
Oddometer: 2,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffler
I just installed the Dual Stars a while back and went w/o the HeatTroller unit. I run the switched accessory plug, since I don't want my battery to run down in case I forget to flip the switch to 'off' when I park the bike. The Hi/Lo settings are great so far. No electrical problems or quirkiness to speak of.
Where can I get these?
__________________
THE ORANGE ONES ARE FASTER!
Have maximum fun while preserving bike and body
2004 KTM 950
2003 Ducati Multistrada
2001 Honda XR 400
1988 C&J Honda 625
1970 Honda SL 100 (green)
Greg Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 10:54 PM   #14
seh750 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
seh750's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, OR
Oddometer: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCExaminer
According to my wiring diagram for my Dual-Stars, the Red wire is the Ground Wire for each grip while the White is for High and the Blue is for low setting. In an earlier post I thought you said you had the Blue and Red goint to the Purple on the Heat-troller? Seems to me you are gonna have a short somewhere with that setup.

Is that the REAL Heat-Troller or the chinese knock off?
Yes, I know the blue/red combination is not what Heat Troller recommended but they actually list the FJRTech site as an example of directions and that setup does work. Once again, everything works fine when the bike's not running. And yes, it's a "real" Heat Troller.
__________________
Stephen
11 KTM SMT 990
07 Suzuki GSXR750
04 BMW R1150RT (Project, for sale)
seh750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2004, 10:55 PM   #15
seh750 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
seh750's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Location: Beaverton, OR
Oddometer: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesfnw
...but...if you wire them to the battery...what will happen
when you leave them ON overnight?
and you WILL leave them on...I know
wes
That's why I'll install it with a relay...
__________________
Stephen
11 KTM SMT 990
07 Suzuki GSXR750
04 BMW R1150RT (Project, for sale)
seh750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014