What bike do you want today?

[Tim_Tom]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

Yeah, I suppose that's one example at nearly 25% more money. They aren't selling well at all, either. I've seen several early models collecting dust in showrooms. A shame, I'd have at least tested one if they came with ABS here,

You stated that no Japanese factory had an 800cc sport naked. I just reminded you of the bike you've never seen in the wild. I've only ever seen one not in a showroom, and would rather have the Ninja than the FZ8. For exactly the reasons you posted.


But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.



I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by Tim_Tom

You stated that no Japanese factory had an 800cc sport naked. I just reminded you of the bike you've never seen in the wild. I've only ever seen one not in a showroom, and would rather have the Ninja than the FZ8. For exactly the reasons you posted.


But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.


I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...

I still don't get why they go to all the trouble to make and import non-abs bikes in the middleweight category.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Tim_Tom

Y

But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.



I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...

I've never ridden the Kaw twin, but I have ridden a friends Gen. 1 SV650. Wow, what a fun little bike! And with an aftermarket exhaust, it had an intoxicating sound! . I came real close to picking one up on more than one occasion too. The Kawasaki parallel twins, while a good engine with good power characteristic (from what I understand at least) just don't tickle my aural thrill machinery at all. I love my Ducati's sound. I love my H-D's sound. I love my Buell's sound. My BMW doesn't do it for me at all in that area, and that's what the farty sound of the Kawasaki twins make me think of. Different, sure, but still, there's just nothing like the noise of a nice v-twin, IMO And that's not even mentioning the feel of the engine's power pulses.

Maybe that's a weird reason to buy a particular bike to some people, but a bike is more than just a machine to me, and they have to excite me with sensation for me to be truly satisfied riding them. In fact, that's the reason I hate inline 4s. I've owned a few and ridden quite a few more, but once I sampled my first Ducati, it just changed my perception of what I wanted in a motorcycle. Sure, the 4s are fast and efficient, but every time I ride one now I get off just feeling BLA...

[Randy]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

I still don't get why they go to all the trouble to make and import non-abs bikes in the middleweight category.

I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that it has to with meeting a price point. For the most part it seems that in the middleweight category the biggest buyers are newer riders and those that are very price conscious. The suspension componentry chosen for use in this category also reflects this market direction. The manufacturers probably feel that ABS's added cost wouldn't be well received by the core group of potential buyers in this market segment.

Personally, while I do appreciate the potential benefits of ABS, and did choose to pay the added cost when I purchased my GS (it was an option), I don't let the absence of ABS keep me from a bike I otherwise enjoy. If available, I may take it, but it's not a deciding factor for me. I fact. I've gotten two new bikes since buying the GS, and neither of them have it.

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by Randy

I've never ridden the Kaw twin, but I have ridden a friends Gen. 1 SV650. Wow, what a fun little bike! And with an aftermarket exhaust, it had an intoxicating sound! . I came real close to picking one up on more than one occasion too. The Kawasaki parallel twins, while a good engine with good power characteristic (from what I understand at least) just don't tickle my aural thrill machinery at all. I love my Ducati's sound. I love my H-D's sound. I love my Buell's sound. My BMW doesn't do it for me at all in that area, and that's what the farty sound of the Kawasaki twins make me think of. Different, sure, but still, there's just nothing like the noise of a nice v-twin, IMO And that's not even mentioning the feel of the engine's power pulses.

Maybe that's a weird reason to buy a particular bike to some people, but a bike is more than just a machine to me, and they have to excite me with sensation for me to be truly satisfied riding them. In fact, that's the reason I hate inline 4s. I've owned a few and ridden quite a few more, but once I sampled my first Ducati, it just changed my perception of what I wanted in a motorcycle. Sure, the 4s are fast and efficient, but every time I ride one now I get off just feeling BLA...

The 650 Kawasaki twin sounds a lot better once the catalytic converter is gotten rid of and a decent pipe is installed. I have a Leo Vince can with the db killer installed on the Versys. I consider the bike to be a "standard", and it's been a very good all around utility machine for me. It'll cruise at 80 all day and return about 48 mpg. The Versys makes about 60 hp at the rear wheel with good mid-range torque, and the other variants make more, but the torque peak also comes in higher in the rev range.

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by Randy

I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that it has to with meeting a price point.

I absolutely get that, but on the one hand abs can't be added the way a suspension can be modified, and on the other, it doesn't cost nearly what they charge for it as an option. I can't wait for the euro standards to take effect, but even after that we will still see non abs bikes - where else do they sell them? It is absurd that bikes like the fz8, the versys, the cb1000r and the svf650 aren't available with abs in the US when they are available with abs virtually everywhere else in the world.

oh, and on topic, I still want an R1200R. (with abs, of course)

[Randy]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

I absolutely get that, but on the one hand abs can't be added the way a suspension can be modified, and on the other, it doesn't cost nearly what they charge for it as an option. I can't wait for the euro standards to take effect, but even after that we will still see non abs bikes - where else do they sell them? It is absurd that bikes like the fz8, the versys, the cb1000r and the svf650 aren't available with abs in the US when they are available with abs virtually everywhere else in the world.

oh, and on topic, I still want an R1200R. (with abs, of course)

I'm not denying your points at all. But, I think that people often discredit the manufacture's marketing acumen. While they do miss the mark sometimes, I think it's all too easy for us enthusiast to play armchair quarterback. I don't believe that they make uneducated marketing decisions. The world marketplace is far to complex and competitive for that. They have it down to a fine science, just like most business that survive and thrive today in the ever changing economic climate. It's always a compromise between the financials, the engineers, and the marketing gurus. But somewhere along the line some very smart people decide where that compromise is to fall. If they believed it would be economically beneficial to offer ABS on bikes in this market segment, here in the States, I'm sure they would. The very fact that none of the four big players do, tells me something...

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by Randy

It's always a compromise between the financials, the engineers, and the marketing gurus.

While that is true, there is also a culture of telling the client what they want to hear in market research, or so I hear from my colleagues that go into that sector.

Anyway, more images of bikes I want:

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

I still don't get why they go to all the trouble to make and import non-abs bikes in the middleweight category.

Because MOST people still don't want them and don't want to pay for them.

[Grainbelt]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Because MOST people still don't want them and don't want to pay for them.

98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Really though, we don't know how many would pay for it, since it isn't an option on many models. Nice to see Honda offering it on damn near everything, particularly the entire line of 500s.

[Mulewright]

I will never buy a.b.s. bikes without the option of dis abeling the "Nanny" and would prefer not to have well intentioned people / manufactureres / government burocrats make choices for me...
Go down a dirt or gravel road and try to stop with them activated....
IF you live thru the experience, you have qualified to speak to me on the subject..... :
AND I resent whoever makes the call, however well intentioned, to ram it down my gullet like a full blown "Safety Nazi"from D.C. that's out to "Help Me".
No thanks!!!
"And That's all I have to say about it."... F.G. quote.
.

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Because MOST people still don't want them and don't want to pay for them.

[Cos]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Because MOST people still don't want them and don't want to pay for them.

We've butted heads on this before and we'll keep doing it. I call bull on that.

MOST people where?

Look at all the threads about bikes that go to the US and all the people that say that they won't buy one without ABS.

And i don't know about the States but bikes wthout ABS languish on sales floors here exactly because of that.

Mind you that both my Triumphs are sans ABS. I'm just pointing out that consumers have bought the ABS concept on bikes. Especially the newer generation of riders.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

Kawasaki doesn't have a motor that meets those specs. Neither do any of the other big 4, really, unless you want a massively retuned GSX750

They just redid the Z750 (made it 800cc), but the weight is anything but
"down, way down".

[gentlemanjim]

Randy - Right On! I just bought a first gen SV and put a viper pipe with DC killer on it and it just sounds so very sweet. Love it. I had a Ducati Montster 904 with Arrow pipes and the SV comes closest to sound perfect. VTwins make all the right mechanical noises even Virago's sound good. Some parrallel twins sound good Triumph's old Yamaha XS650's, but the new gen Kawasaki just sound like big single blat blat sort of.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by gentlemanjim

Randy - Right On! I just bought a first gen SV and put a viper pipe with DC killer on it and it just sounds so very sweet. Love it. I had a Ducati Montster 904 with Arrow pipes and the SV comes closest to sound perfect. VTwins make all the right mechanical noises even Virago's sound good. Some parrallel twins sound good Triumph's old Yamaha XS650's, but the new gen Kawasaki just sound like big single blat blat sort of.

+1

I never liked the sound of my 650R, maybe only up to around 4000.
It still sounds better then the F800 BMW IMHO.

The parallel twin in the Honda NC700 series sounds like a v-twin.