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Old 06-13-2010, 09:06 AM   #1
c_mccann OP
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1987 Honda Elite 150 Carb- Good News and parts help..!

My Elite 150 has never run right since new in 1987 (1500 miles ago). The previous owner had it since new and he and his dealer could never get it to run right. Problem in a nutshell- erratic starts, would start sometimes and not other times, no pattern (warm, cold).. Well, I figured it out easily- the idle mixture was never dialed in correctly at the factory, and the pilot screw was capped a the factory. So, I dialed the screw 1-3/4 turns out (it was only 1/4 out at factory, so it was rich all the time) and viola! Starts like a champ, every time!

Now my woes- the pilot screw came out entirely on a ride... I shouldda put a spot of light locktite on the threads, but was too stoked that I could ride finally. Honda parts microfiche does not list the pilot screw as a part, nor the cap that covers it.

Need help- where can I find a replacement pilot screw? Does it have an o-ring as well? I did not see one when I pulled it out to clean it, most carbs have a o ring on them, no schematic covers this, and the dealer is only good at new bikes- go figure.. And I do not know what Keihin model number the carb is, only the Honda model number - VE04C

All help is appreciated ro find me another Pilot screw and any o-rings I need, I will even take salvage parts no problem if somebody has one lying around.

Thanks in advance..
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:48 AM   #2
Dabears
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Save yourself some time and just buy a used carb on Ebay- There seems to be plenty of them available, both used and brand new. Seems like a small price to pay since you've finally found the problem that has been plaguing this scooter for 23 years!

The weather's too nice this time of year to keep this scooter down while you hunt for a part.....
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:32 AM   #3
bbishoppcm
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Screw

I have one including spring; $5 including postage to the US. Interested?
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:52 PM   #4
c_mccann OP
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Thanks!

Sounds good, thanks a million!

Just to clarify- this is the idle mixture screw (pilot screw) on the lower right side of the carb by the back (engine side), the one covered by a plug from the factory?

Call me (562)6763-1253 and I'll give you my information and I can get yours to pay you..

thanks- Casey
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:43 PM   #5
brockster
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Thumb

Holy crap!

I just got done pushing my bike several hundred yards before it would start again earlier tonight.

I'm going to check that out. This drivetrain was apparently always running crappily when in the previous body.

Maybe I don't need to by the $90 carb diaphragm after all.

Thanks for the post!
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:50 AM   #6
c_mccann OP
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Does anybody have a good picture or schematic on the 150 elite carb, mainly detailing the righ tside of the carb? Also- what is the order of the pilot screw, seal, washer and spring as it goes into the side of the carb? I don't even remember a spring on my idle mix screw when I disassebbled it for the overhaul. Is the pilot screw and the idle mixture adjustment screw the same part? It labels is as such in the Honda factory manual..
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:39 PM   #7
brockster
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http://www.ridemotorcyclesinc.com/fi...1984&fveh=3076

Look at the link. There is an explobed biew dere por yurr disassebbly.

You can find the exact year and model that you want on that site.
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." - SpoonKiller / tiotalruckus.com


brockster screwed with this post 06-17-2010 at 01:45 PM
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:07 PM   #8
c_mccann OP
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Thanks, but that only covers the left side of the carb, per the Honda Fiche. Any others?
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:23 PM   #9
brockster
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Wicked Elite Carb diaphragm

After getting all inspired by the idle screw news, I stripped the bodywork off of my Elite.

After I unscrewed the carb cover and pulled the spring out, I removed the carb diaphragm and needle assembly. I didn't see any tears or holes in the black rubber thing.


The colors are off in the next photo because I had to increase the brightness and contrast with GIMP.

Right side of an Honda 1984 Elite CH125 in it's natural habitat.


The right side of the carb is above that curved section of fuel line on the right. I'm GUESSING that those two items that look like silver washers are covering screws - one of which may be the fuel-air mix screw. I did find the idle screw and raised the idle a small amount.
But I didn't want to start drilling into the carb body without confirmation of the correct location for the fuel-air screw cover.

I know that I put it back together correctly because it runs just as crappily as before. Victory - kind of...
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Man whoever came up with Ronald McDonald was dropping some serious acid.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:14 AM   #10
fullmetalscooter
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you ve checked out that the muffler gasket is good? Is the muffler oem? scrappydogscooters.com has new carbs for under 40 bucks. What about the coils and also the cap that conect to the spark plug? those can go and give you shitting running. A NGK screw in replace ment cap is 5 bucks. Take the old one off , cut a 1/4 inch off the end of the wire and screw it in. I would also cheek that the fuel pump is good. if the rubber gasket inside is cracked it could cause an issue. are the old fuel line still good or maybe going bye bye with age??

intake manifold rubber gasket is that still good or not???
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fullmetalscooter screwed with this post 06-19-2010 at 05:34 AM
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:11 AM   #11
brockster
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The exhaust gasket has been toasted. I go thru them like BP thru Public Relations reps... A bad exhaust gasket just makes the bike backfire (occasionally) and the right side of the rear tire get warm.

I have not checked the rest of the list yet. Thanks for the hints!
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Man whoever came up with Ronald McDonald was dropping some serious acid.
." - SpoonKiller / tiotalruckus.com

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Old 06-25-2010, 09:44 AM   #12
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Ok, update... Got new idle screw assy at the dealer, screw, spring, washer, o-ring and installed it with the sequence as follows: spring first, washer, o ring. Dialed it in at 1-3/4 turns out per Honda specs. No start. GRRRRRRRR... Pulled out plug again and it is wet..! Huh? So I let it air out, re-install the plug and re-started a half hour later- perfect start! Ok.. Rode around, filled up tank with super (tank had less than 1/4 tank of 3 week old fuel). Started every time now today (6/19), rode about 20 miles around town and all is good..

Took home and let it rest in the garage for the night. Came out and started it the next morning, no start, just cranked and cranked... WTF?? Came out two hours later and it started like new, on the first crank.

This is Sunday, so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday the same- it'll start one day perfect and not at all the next.

I've got spark, I adjusted the valves, carb is sparkly clean inside (cleaned and blown out with nitrogen, new idle screw, new fuel hoses, the vacuum operated fuel petcock, PCV, choke solenoid all test out perfect per Honda specs, the tank vent to the charcoal filter has air flow, the kill switch was tested perfect, but she seems to start rich. Bike still has 1800 miles and all is is bone stock factory, dealer prepped immaculate.

Also leaned out the idle mixture screw to 2 1/2 turns for a test, no difference in the starting bug.

She sits in the garage with the idle mix at 1 3/4 turns out and the poltergeist lives on..

Any other thoughts? The float needle is still stock, but when I pulled it and inspected it, the taper was clean and no wear on it. The float does not seem to have an adjustment on it. Clogged carb passage?
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:56 AM   #13
c_mccann OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetalscooter
you ve checked out that the muffler gasket is good? Is the muffler oem? scrappydogscooters.com has new carbs for under 40 bucks. What about the coils and also the cap that conect to the spark plug? those can go and give you shitting running. A NGK screw in replace ment cap is 5 bucks. Take the old one off , cut a 1/4 inch off the end of the wire and screw it in. I would also cheek that the fuel pump is good. if the rubber gasket inside is cracked it could cause an issue. are the old fuel line still good or maybe going bye bye with age??

intake manifold rubber gasket is that still good or not???
fuel pump? Mine is a gravity fed model with a vacuum operated petcock. I operated the petcock with a Miti Vac and it flowed fuel into a jelly jar at a fast rate of flow, a cup every 20 seconds.

The ignition wire is good, the spark plug boot looks new, checked for any grounding of the plug boot on the block and found none, have tested the continuity of the ignition circuit.

I am scratching my head, never been this puzzled by a single cylinder motor before..!
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:01 AM   #14
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That carb looks almost identical to the Mikuni that is on my Honda V4's. It sounds like to me you still have a float/ or float level problem. If it is as close to the carbs, the float height IS adjustable by bending the tab that contacts the needle.

Check the float height by holding the carb with the floats perpendicular to the gorund, so that no direct weight it is on the sprung needle contact. It is very important that Measuring the float height is done without compressing this part of the needle.




EDIT: Upon some investigation, the float is VERY similar to the one on my Honda V4 carbs, so yes, bend the tab to adjust.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:01 PM   #15
fullmetalscooter
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I would break down , cry in my beer and take it to a dealer or whom ever is a motorcycle god you know with an offering of a chase of beer and a virgin . if you can find the virgin thatis . she or he will be next to where your local unicorn hangs outs. Head over to yahoo groups and join up with elite scooter group.

does you bike still have the kick stand switch that stops the bike starting if it's down?? seem to remember something about there being one
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