950 Super Enduro "Quick Question(s)" Thread...

[mousitsas]

Originally Posted by HickOnACrick

I respectfully disagree. I think if you are traveling on paved roads, the subframe will handle a small load. However, even the best dirt roads have washboards and potholes. People tend to pack more stuff for longer trips, and AK is a long trip.

My advice is to find a good welder, and have it done, then forget about it. The subframe does not handle any load more than 5 lbs (in my experience), if loaded aft of the seat, and traveling off-road.

Good luck.

Which bit do you actually disagree with, because I think you actually do agree

[markie_wales]

Or if you can't / can't be bothered to get it welded, a poor man's "not quite as good" solution is to fit some BBriggs racks. You can't see it too well in the photo, but the tube comes up from the ovals and fits to the front rear-rack bolt and then there is an extension that goes under the rack to the rear most rear-rack bolt. Not saying it's the same as welding, but certainly gives the rear "C" some extra needed support, and off loads some of the weight. I've ridden many hundreds of mikes over some pretty tricky off road stuff and this has been fine with a weeks luggage/tools etc.



cheers

Markie

[triplenickel]

I don't think there's anything wrong with these subframes, maybe some poor or over loading by some unfortunate folks. I'm at nearly 60k, 90% dirt, more than half of that loaded with gear and mine is fine and doesn't get babied. If you want to strap a jerry can out there or a giant pelican and fill it then pound the washboard at 100MPH all day you might have trouble but a bit of common sense will keep you in the clear.

Are you doing anything other than riding up the highway to AK? Most have the romantic idea that it's a big deal and rough terrain or some type of frontier but it's major paved highway with giant motorhomes all over it (if the highway was you plan). There's only been a handful of failures considering the cumulative miles logged out there, I think this one has got blown out of proportion. My normal travelling load for reference, the cooler is usually full of ice, cold ones, and steak at least 15 lbs;

[v8toilet]

Originally Posted by triplenickel

I don't think there's anything wrong with these subframes, maybe some poor or over loading by some unfortunate folks. I'm at nearly 60k, 90% dirt, more than half of that loaded with gear and mine is fine and doesn't get babied. If you want to strap a jerry can out there or a giant pelican and fill it then pound the washboard at 100MPH all day you might have trouble but a bit of common sense will keep you in the clear.

Are you doing anything other than riding up the highway to AK? Most have the romantic idea that it's a big deal and rough terrain or some type of frontier but it's major paved highway with giant motorhomes all over it (if the highway was you plan). There's only been a handful of failures considering the cumulative miles logged out there, I think this one has got blown out of proportion. My normal travelling load for reference, the cooler is usually full of ice, cold ones, and steak at least 15 lbs;

I've been to AK, I'm familiar with the terrain or lack thereof, this trip is for a relative who wants to 'ride' up there so it should be pretty docile.

Am I correct that the weak point is the horseshoe just behind the inserts for the tail racks/fender etc?

No failures where in the areas where the Adv subframes have failed?

[pfdskipper]

Originally Posted by triplenickel

I don't think there's anything wrong with these subframes, maybe some poor or over loading by some unfortunate folks. I'm at nearly 60k, 90% dirt, more than half of that loaded with gear and mine is fine and doesn't get babied. If you want to strap a jerry can out there or a giant pelican and fill it then pound the washboard at 100MPH all day you might have trouble but a bit of common sense will keep you in the clear.

Are you doing anything other than riding up the highway to AK? Most have the romantic idea that it's a big deal and rough terrain or some type of frontier but it's major paved highway with giant motorhomes all over it (if the highway was you plan). There's only been a handful of failures considering the cumulative miles logged out there, I think this one has got blown out of proportion. My normal travelling load for reference, the cooler is usually full of ice, cold ones, and steak at least 15 lbs;

I believe you are quite off the mark with your comments relating to sub-frame failures. Yes, the behaviors you mentioned have, and most often will result in broken bikes. BUT, to conveniantly group and blame all failures on poor load placement, i.e.operator error,or lack of common sense as you say, Is bullshit.

I am happy that you and your wisdom have not had to deal with the subframe problem. You must have one of the good subframes. Or, perhaps just the right amount of common sense needed to avoid subframe issues..... ON YOUR BIKE!!
However, There are a significant number of failures that have occured on SE's. Take a look at the many pics out there that show the exact same thing. This is an engineering problem plain and simple. Reference the way KTM pimped the SE and its abilities. They even put passenger pegs on the bike and stated in their literature that it would haul two people and their gear. The tail of the subframe is held together with a very small spot weld connecting two pieces of aluminum,,, thats it!

KTM miscalculated, under engineered and disappeared when the issue was brought to light. Shame on them.

But damn they sure nailed most everything else!!! So its fixable and life goes on. Just please spare us the sermon on how to properly ride the SE to prevent subframe failures.

[triplenickel]

No my subframe is the same as everyone elses, I didn't get a good one. How may failures do you know of on here, 10 maybe 12? What is that like a .025% failure rate? Totally made up numbers obviously but this hardly qualifies as a major design flaw, if it was that big of a deal one of our many fine OC cottage industry vendors would have a solution..

I am happy that you and your wisdom have not had to deal with the subframe problem.

Me too, it's so simple a caveman can do it!

[pfdskipper]

Originally Posted by triplenickel

No my subframe is the same as everyone elses, I didn't get a good one. How may failures do you know of on here, 10 maybe 12? What is that like a .025% failure rate? Totally made up numbers obviously but this hardly qualifies as a major design flaw .



Me too, it's so simple a caveman can do it!

Wrong on the math. I would say the number is nearer to a hundred. Look around a bit, many on ADVrider have had cracking and posted. Many SE owners do not frequent this site and those numbers of subframe problems would only be known by KTM, and that also is a big maybe. Not every problem subframe had issues under warranty, so I would venture to assume that these numbers would be significant based on the number of problems posted amongst the Advrider members. Statistical probabilities arent absolute and I certainly do not know the actual number, but I think it would be easy to assume these numbers are significant.I know that the Phx Az dealer told me that KTM America had replaced "dozens" just in the USA. Its a mute point to me at this point. My subframe is stout as hell, wasnt even that difficult to make happen.

Again, I think you are in a perfect world with your SE and your abilities to avoid subframe problems. Good for you, you are a superior Caveman. However, there are proven issues that have been repeatedly shown to occur. Dismissing the known issue and posting commentary stating the only problem with the subframe was related to "a lack of common sense" is again, In my mind at least, simply BULLSHIT!!

[mousitsas]

Originally Posted by pfdskipper

Wrong on the math. I would say the number is nearer to a hundred. Look around a bit, many on ADVrider have had cracking and posted. Many SE owners do not frequent this site and those numbers of subframe problems would only be known by KTM, and that also is a big maybe. Not every problem subframe had issues under warranty, so I would venture to assume that these numbers would be significant based on the number of problems posted amongst the Advrider members. Statistical probabilities arent absolute and I certainly do not know the actual number, but I think it would be easy to assume these numbers are significant.I know that the Phx Az dealer told me that KTM America had replaced "dozens" just in the USA. Its a mute point to me at this point. My subframe is stout as hell, wasnt even that difficult to make happen.

Again, I think you are in a perfect world with your SE and your abilities to avoid subframe problems. Good for you, you are a superior Caveman. However, there are proven issues that have been repeatedly shown to occur. Dismissing the known issue and posting commentary stating the only problem with the subframe was related to "a lack of common sense" is again, In my mind at least, simply BULLSHIT!!

But this is exactly why we buy KTMs! Because we greatly enjoy finding their weak spots and fixing them. If we wanted to buy fine bikes from the word go, we would buy Honda. But we don't, do we?

[triplenickel]

Originally Posted by pfdskipper

Wrong on the math. I would say the number is nearer to a hundred. Look around a bit, many on ADVrider have had cracking and posted. Many SE owners do not frequent this site and those numbers of subframe problems would only be known by KTM, and that also is a big maybe. Not every problem subframe had issues under warranty, so I would venture to assume that these numbers would be significant based on the number of problems posted amongst the Advrider members. Statistical probabilities arent absolute and I certainly do not know the actual number, but I think it would be easy to assume these numbers are significant.I know that the Phx Az dealer told me that KTM America had replaced "dozens" just in the USA. Its a mute point to me at this point. My subframe is stout as hell, wasnt even that difficult to make happen.

Again, I think you are in a perfect world with your SE and your abilities to avoid subframe problems. Good for you, you are a superior Caveman. However, there are proven issues that have been repeatedly shown to occur. Dismissing the known issue and posting commentary stating the only problem with the subframe was related to "a lack of common sense" is again, In my mind at least, simply BULLSHIT!!

Wow, taking this discussion a little personally? Yelling bullshit at me and taking little shots would sure seem to indicate that. My skills certainly aren't anything special or I wouldn't be working for a living, but a basic understanding of leverage and limits of materials have kept me in the clear, so far at least.

If you re-read the sub frame thread you'll see a bunch of common factors which happen to be the ones I mentioned earlier regarding loads (jerry cans, and pelican cases mostly) and over loading way out on the end of a lever. I've seen the KTM literature on the claims to subframe strength I know which brochure you mean, I saved a copy for ammo if I got in a warranty battle on mine and yes it does say it will haul a passenger and gear. Do your passengers sit out behind your rear rack mounting bolts? I'm no KTM apologist, lord knows they've shit the bed on several things repeatedley for years without addressing them. Here's the brochure page for anyone interested too, pretty obvious they don't intend loads to be placed beyond the factory grab handles.

Here's a couple of neat quotes from the thread, not hard to define the contributing factors;

I struggle with the concept of traveling light, I know I should pack less but it always seems my bike is loaded when I leave for a weekend ride.

I do like most of the Turbo City racks features. The rack is quite sturdy and well made, however, the lack of the triagulated anchor points do seem to accentuate the load stressors placed on the subframe. Same goes for dead loads placed directly on a rear plate set-up.

I previously owned a Honda 650R and suffered through similar issues with that bike as well

mayby 40 lbs.Very rough rds

This was the result of a heavy load , with too much weight too far towards the rear , I also experienced a tube valve tear out on the same trip from the rear tyre spinning on the rim due to a overly aggresive riding style , tortureous terrain and the said weight too far towards the rear .

You should be fine now, but ONLY if you can control the urge to"load up" the SE like a GS1200. Breaking the habit is tough, lord knows I continue to push the weight "safe-zone" on my bike much more than I should.


You might be closer on the number of failures than me but forums and the nature of what brings people to them (problems mostly) can skew stats. In the sub frame thread it was 7 yes and 17 no, that's a big percentage no doubt! I couldn't find anywhere near 100 though.


This subject reminds me of when I worked in a Ski-Doo dealership, a couple times a year guys would come in looking for warranty on bent tunnels from "just riding down the trail at a modest pace", there's always more to the story. Personally I think it's gotten blown a bit out or proportion but I'm not gonna argue, bottom line is you're now happy with yours, and I am with mine, let's just burn tires off! Happy trails.

[ct_rider]

A few months back I bought a used 08 SE and really enjoy the bike but have been working through a few issues with the bike getting it dialed. The bike has always seemed to run really rich and not really needed the choke to start. The bike has a set of Akra pipes and a jet kit installed by a dealer by the prior owner. I took the carbs off and checked the jetting used and it followed the recommendations that came in the kit. While I was in there I checked to make sure the choke cables were not hung up accidentially holding the choke on and also leaned out the idle mixture screws. There really wasn't any improvement. So I started thinking that the bike has an under bar mounted scotts damper that had to have raised the bars up. I checked and the choke cable was adjusted as short as possible and when I removed the choke lever the cable pulled in a bit further. It seems like the cables need to be slightly longer.

Has anyone else run into this? For now I just took off the lever and can pull on the ball on the end of the cable to engage the choke. I also considered cutting the nut off the adjustment to be able to get another 0.100" of slack or so. To me that seems like a possible solution rather than try and find a longer cable.

Any thoughts?

[HOT DAMN!]

Originally Posted by triplenickel

I don't think there's anything wrong with these subframes

I load the hell out of mine, she has been down numerous times, loaded up through miles of deep sandy whoops, and one very high speed end over end. Maybe I got one of the good ones.









Last inspected a few days ago, no problemo

[HOT DAMN!]

Originally Posted by ct_rider

Has anyone else run into this?

How tall is the rise? I put 2" pivot risers on mine but ended up disassembling the bike and rerouting all the original cables/controls. They all currently work without stress through the full movement of the bars, any more and cables would have to be replaced.

[ct_rider]

I'm not sure how much rise there is with the set up as I never saw the stock set up. I would guess the bars are maybe 1-2 inches higher than stock.

Next time I have the tank off I will take a loot at alternate routing - do you remember how you re-routed the choke? From what I remember it was a pretty straight shot with the stock routing.

[triplenickel]

Originally Posted by ct_rider

I'm not sure how much rise there is with the set up as I never saw the stock set up. I would guess the bars are maybe 1-2 inches higher than stock.

Next time I have the tank off I will take a loot at alternate routing - do you remember how you re-routed the choke? From what I remember it was a pretty straight shot with the stock routing.

Dumb question but is it routed through the airbox properly?

[v8toilet]

Originally Posted by ct_rider

I'm not sure how much rise there is with the set up as I never saw the stock set up. I would guess the bars are maybe 1-2 inches higher than stock.

Next time I have the tank off I will take a loot at alternate routing - do you remember how you re-routed the choke? From what I remember it was a pretty straight shot with the stock routing.

I haven't put a rise on mine yet but I noticed the choke is really tight.