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Old 02-05-2011, 08:46 AM   #811
dwayne
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Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to challenge the definitions, I really wasn't sure.

Having said that a Canadian Continetal Divide Trail will have to have very significant portions that run on paved roads (I'd guess over 1000 km, even resorting to gravel service roads that parallel the highway). There also several significant portions where you will need 400km + fuel range and there is lodging even less frequently. There isn't much route finding to be done on some of those portions, because there is only one road. Many of the gravel options are used frequently by heavy trucks driving (oil site service, mining, and logging) very quickly creating choking dust clouds. Again not saying it can't be done, just wanted folks to know the reality of our geography here.

If you wanted to go ahead with a way to get from CDT at the US boarder to the Dempster, I would propose revising the "contiential divide" part of it, and focus on making it a "Canadian Mountian Traverse Trail" or something. The southeren Canadian portion of the continetal divide is extremely rugged (even more so than south westren Colorado), sparsely populated (and serviced) and is protected by provincial and national parks. Allowing the trail to move away from the spirt of staying as close to the divide as possible opens up a wider range of options that would make this ride much more enjoyable.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:05 PM   #812
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This thread caught my attention today and I've spent ages reading the various pages / viewing the amazing photo's.
I had an idea of riding across Canada on a road bike about a year ago but recently I've purchased an old & small dual-purpose bike (an XT225 Serow) and doing a mixture of trail and paved is very appealing.

I've followed the pages on the expeditionportal forum too and it sounds a fantastic adventure and its a brilliant idea to create a roadbook. Sadly, if I make my journey, it will be before it becomes publicly available.

But I'll continue to follow with great interest :)

BTW - what's the insects that you refer to on the trails? Do the flies bite or are they simply a pest?
Scotland have "midges" which are tiny mosquito's and NZ have "sandflies" which have exactly the same agenda. I seem to be allergic to anything that bites :(
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:26 PM   #813
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Thumb Well put

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly99 View Post
Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated.

Gave up trying to please everyone a while back. Seems to us that most of the comments from people who will actual utilize the route all seem to have a common theme. The distance will be challenging enough, no need to make the terrain crazy. An emphasis on remote out of the way places that you wouldn't normally see, utilizing gravel back roads whenever possible and a short technical challenege now and again to spice it up. This is what I forsee the TCAT being when it's all said and done
Perfect and nicely stated. I would imagine that anyone looking for more technical sections won't have much trouble finding them and hooking them back up with the main route?

Lurked and have not chimed in this thread before but I'm appreciative of all the work folks have commited to this. Well done! Look forward to riding some if not all sections someday.

Thanks...Steve
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:11 PM   #814
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BTW - what's the insects that you refer to on the trails? Do the flies bite or are they simply a pest?
Scotland have "midges" which are tiny mosquito's and NZ have "sandflies" which have exactly the same agenda. I seem to be allergic to anything that bites :(
Depending on the area we have some beautiful mosquitos, some truely stunning black flies and some wondefull horseflies

Some areas are blessed with more than others and depending on the season you can really become a part of the lovely food chain that the almighty graciously created


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Br View Post
Perfect and nicely stated. I would imagine that anyone looking for more technical sections won't have much trouble finding them and hooking them back up with the main route?

Lurked and have not chimed in this thread before but I'm appreciative of all the work folks have commited to this. Well done! Look forward to riding some if not all sections someday.

Thanks...Steve
Thanks Steve, we've thrown in some technical sections that are optional that I believe won't disappoint for a loaded bike
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by dwayne View Post
Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to challenge the definitions, I really wasn't sure.

Having said that a Canadian Continetal Divide Trail will have to have very significant portions that run on paved roads (I'd guess over 1000 km, even resorting to gravel service roads that parallel the highway). There also several significant portions where you will need 400km + fuel range and there is lodging even less frequently. There isn't much route finding to be done on some of those portions, because there is only one road. Many of the gravel options are used frequently by heavy trucks driving (oil site service, mining, and logging) very quickly creating choking dust clouds. Again not saying it can't be done, just wanted folks to know the reality of our geography here.

If you wanted to go ahead with a way to get from CDT at the US boarder to the Dempster, I would propose revising the "contiential divide" part of it, and focus on making it a "Canadian Mountian Traverse Trail" or something. The southeren Canadian portion of the continetal divide is extremely rugged (even more so than south westren Colorado), sparsely populated (and serviced) and is protected by provincial and national parks. Allowing the trail to move away from the spirt of staying as close to the divide as possible opens up a wider range of options that would make this ride much more enjoyable.

I think there was a misunderstanding, the True North West route will have nothing to do with the continental divide. It will meet the CDR (that is in the states) at the border and then continue north. As mentioned it's only a concept at this point but in following the concept of the other routes, visiting places people might not otherwise visit, it "may" not be in the mountains. Alberta holds some interesting, less travelled, non paved roads that lead to one of the main arteries heading north.....It is predictable that most folks will have to head south again after completing the route and its also predictable which way they will return, so maybe having the TNW follow a non predictable route is the way to go?

Trunk Road
Along the beach of the Athabasca dunes
The "forgotten rail trail" around the Spatsizi Wilderness area
Tarsands
Lot's of options, looking forward to exploring them

Time will tell, trying to not get ahead of ourselves, first things first,finish TCAT and TNE. If finances, time away from wife, etc all work out I am hoping to test ride the TNW in 2012 after riding the western half of the TCAT. Busy busy, vroom vroom In a perfect world this will all be wrapped up in the fall of 2012.

A "vision" for the website we are buildinig is to host gps and maps for a multitude of expedition style trips in Canada. We are hoping others may contribute some. Criteria is yet to be decided but a minimum of 2-3 days would be a must. All of the routes will be distributed at no charge. Canada has some great routes to offer, in creating these three major routes we know we have skipped some great locations as they didn't offer a through route. Some of the area's do offer great "weekend" routes though. If anyone has something in mind, and would like to share it, please shoot me an email. Having one source for international travellers to visit, that holds a lifetime of overland expedition routes in Canada is the goal.

Bike prep is about to begin for the upcoming season, spring is on the horizon
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:25 PM   #816
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:55 AM   #817
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Wow!

That's all I can say. At the same time I wish this would have been done in 2006 when I crossed Canada, mostly on tarmac...

But I did find a few nice fireroads in north western Ontario. As far as I can recall now it was some 40-50 km of really nice roads until the freaking beaver build the dam... So for some adventure and really nice roads I can recommend it.

This is the, almost, worst case condition of the road.


Well it did turned abit more messy but it was a road around it, if I only would have seen it in time...



But on the other side there is something about "watercrossings" and Ontario that goes hand in hand...


I really hope I will be able to get over to Canada again and ride the TCAT, I'm already planning it in my head but at the same time I can hear my girlfriend say "No again..." :)

Thanks for the reading, pictures and to keeping my dream alive.

Cheers from Sweden,
Zappa
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:39 AM   #818
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Just found this thread yesterday! Really awesome to see a trail like this being mapped out across Canada! Can't wait to ride it myself!
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:11 PM   #819
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Hey Deadly and Manxman and everyone working on the BC section of the TCAT.

I haven't been keeping up on what's happening here but I was talking to Tom T(started DualSportBC and BCORMA [BC Off-Road Motorcycle Association]) about the TCAT.

He's thinking for the BC part that this is exactly the type of thing that he could get funding for. It could then be a signed and designated route. If you think that that means easy (fire road) only that's not necessarily true either. There are some very technical trails/riding areas that BCORMA has gotten officially designated for motorcycle use.
Check out www.bcorma.ca for examples. I didn't even realize that there was so much on that site!

Alas I'm not trying to impose anything official on this and I can understand if you want to keep it more underground. Having it official however may be very appealing. Keep it more "protected"...gets towns more involved...
I suspect that many Provinces would be in the same boat as BC too, if you talk to the right people.

Tom is very well versed on the routes and trails around BC, working with Gov't and working with towns and landowners and he also knows all the laws around the land etc.

Tom is a rider first and foremost. He started DSBC and BCORMA to protect areas for riding, get more legit riding and create a unified voice and resource for us. He typically only rides the tough stuff himself (except when charting out the DSBC rides) so he's no danger to tough sections being in there per se.

Again I'm not trying to horn in on anything that has been done here, rather it just came up in conversation with Tom and he was enthusiastic about it.

What do y'all think?

He's not reachable now as he's just left on a Baja trip for a week or so. I meant to post this before he left but I didn't get a chance...he had enough to do anyhow!

Dave
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:47 PM   #820
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A lot of the riding Tom does is more geared towards the smaller DS/Enduro type bikes... These are usually day rides with light loads or multiday rides with camper/RV support at the end of each day...

The TCAT is more geared up for expedition type travel with fully loaded bikes on the road for several days, several weeks or even months at a time....While some of the very skilled may not mind taking a loaded 500+LBS motorcycle through the odd enduro section, Joe average will suffer... Some of these more difficult area could be included in an optional route...

Also the routes by design should pass through the more remote areas where possible to keep with the spirit of Adventure travel...

Manxman is very knowledgeable on the big bike friendly interior routes and will provide a great track out to the coast.. Maybe when a preliminary route is drawn up Tom could study it, add input and get it listed as a trail corridor....

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Old 02-06-2011, 11:34 PM   #821
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Hi gunnerbuck!

Yes that's Tom's riding...but not the events that he puts together as I'm sure you know. Dead Zone, Spring and Fall Noob rides all are big bike doable and designed for big bikes on the C routes.

He's aware (as am I) that this is a continuous big adventure bike cross Canada route.

I also certainly don't want to imply that anyone's routing is not good...rather I'm positive Manxman and y'all know your routes very well!

The more remote the better as far as I'm concerned! No Motels for me! However there will obviously have to be refueling and some resupply on the way. I'm happy to leave my $$ at small towns. Like Coalmont on the KVR for example...doesn't get much smaller than that . They are in turn typically happy to have this kind of thing run through (or close to, and be listed for gas or food or whatever) their town and would be supportive.

I only think Tom and BCORMA may be able to help with some routing suggestions and more importantly maybe some access and getting it legitimized (if that's what's wanted). We can ride some of the TCT and KVR now, but for how long? Look at what's going on in the US. Pro-active groups like BCORMA speak for us to be able to ride and have access.

An example something else we talked about was gated logging roads etc. Some of them are locked because of liability of the companies that own them. If there were proper laws in place (something BCORMA is trying to get going) then we could ride through them. Same with private land owners.

If that's not really what people want no problem with me as I'm more than happy to follow a map, roll chart or GPS.

I for one am stoked this is being put together and big to Deadly and everyone for gettin it goin!

Don't get me wrong...I don't want to step on any toes!!

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:52 AM   #822
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I have exchanged a few pm's back and forth with Tom over the last few weeks in relation to the TCAT project. He seems like a great guy and is more than willing to do whatever he can to help out

I passed his information along to Manxman and Gunnerbuck and I explained to Tom that both of these fellows "are in charge" of their section. Having too many chefs in the kitchen sort of thing. Both Manxman and Gunnerbuck have a very clear idea of how their sections fit into the big picture of the project and they both have a good grasp of the ideals of the project (remote gravel roads, a splash of excitement, scenery and culture, terrain doable by big bikes, distance between gas,etc etc etc).

Both Manxman and Gunnerbuck have Tom's contact info and I leave it in their hands. I do like the suggestion that once we have finalized our route we pass it by Tom and Co. to see if it can benefit their "cause" of keeping area's open to dualsport bikes.

Certainly we all appreciate the support form the BCDualsport and BCORMA organizations and it would be great if we can both help each other out
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:32 AM   #823
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The only times I have seen conflict is near major urban area's.
Yes, however from what I've seen... as the area close to urban areas get closed, the urbanites have to trailer further out, and bring their problems with them. You now have conflicts over land within 2 hours of the GTA.

The further north you go, the less problems there are. Both because of the reduction in population density, and northerners have a more practical attitude about such matters.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:35 AM   #824
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Yes, however from what I've seen... as the area close to urban areas get closed, the urbanites have to trailer further out, and bring their problems with them. You now have conflicts over land within 2 hours of the GTA.

The further north you go, the less problems there are. Both because of the reduction in population density, and northerners have a more practical attitude about such matters.
Agreed. How about a picture of that trailer is full setup, just to make us minamalist bikers drool with envy of the comfort levels it provides
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:26 PM   #825
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I have exchanged a few pm's back and forth with Tom over the last few weeks in relation to the TCAT project. He seems like a great guy and is more than willing to do whatever he can to help out

I passed his information along to Manxman and Gunnerbuck and I explained to Tom that both of these fellows "are in charge" of their section. Having too many chefs in the kitchen sort of thing. Both Manxman and Gunnerbuck have a very clear idea of how their sections fit into the big picture of the project and they both have a good grasp of the ideals of the project (remote gravel roads, a splash of excitement, scenery and culture, terrain doable by big bikes, distance between gas,etc etc etc).

Both Manxman and Gunnerbuck have Tom's contact info and I leave it in their hands.
The level of interest in the BC portion of the TCAT has been amazing. It's really great to see so many people who are as enthusiastic about this project as we are. I have had many offers of support ranging from a place to pitch my tent if I am going to be in their home town during the pre-riding to advice on routing and "must see" attractions.

All of these offers are appreciated and I consider them to be valuable resources. I plan on using some of these resources when possible over the next year or so.

A large portion of the work on this project is the gathering of the cultural and historical information for the regions that the TCAT will be passing through. During the past few months, I have been in conversations with representatives of the First Nations and the towns along the route. With that and the research I have been doing on the internet and through books, I think the riders following along the route are going to have a real good sense of BC as well as enjoying some of the best scenery in Canada.

As Deadly has stated, Gunnerbuck and I clearly understand the criteria for the routing of the TCAT. For those who have suggested that the route should go over "Say Your Prayers Pass" or through "Nice Knowin Ya Gulch" it just isn't going to happen. The route is designed as a cross Canada expedition on large loaded dual sport bikes and 4x4s. There are going to be some technical loops as extras to the route if riders choose to try them.

In a couple of months, the majority of the behind the scenes work will be done and the real fun can begin. Pre-riding the TCAT.

Can't wait to get riding.

Manxman

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