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Old 10-15-2010, 12:43 PM   #151
pklop
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tried new springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peka
Just curious - have any of you that have installed steering dampers done anything with your suspension first?
This week Hyperpro replaced my springs, both front and rear, with new progressive one. I asked them to because i experienced still to much headshake on the german autobahn (where it's legal to go very very fast :o). Replacing the springs solved this high-speed wobble.

So in the last few week i tried these things; tires, damper, springs.
All these things had different effects, solved different problems but also influenced the other areas.

regards
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:38 AM   #152
hasenwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutterman
After checking out the websites for the Hyperpro - can't find one for the 1150 GS's. Is this correct? Any other ones that will fit the 1150's?
I am searching for a damper for my 1100GS which is the same setup as the 1150GS

Hyperpro makes a steering damper for the R1100R which has the same setup up front as our 1100/1150 GS - The R1100R even comes with a OE steering damper. The difference is that the Hyperpro replaces the OE unit. The OE unit uses two brackets to hold it in place.

See:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...49&hg=31&fg=15

So to me, it means buying part 1 and 11 and fitting the Hyper pro unit for the R1100R

I am not entirely sure what part 1 and 11 bolt on to, I assume 1 goes to the trailing arm and 11 goes to the fork bridge.

There are different part numbers for the trailing arm and I think that difference is where the part #1 bolts on to, the GS has nothing there to bolt on to... so that means getting a 850R or 1100R piece - not cheap... but the fork bridge between the R and GS are the same.

Ralle-moto seems to be the only unit out there but Best Rest isn't / won't (wording in his email was weird) carrying them and I can't seem to get a responce from the guys in Australia - I would be willing to buy a bunch of these if there is enough interest in them.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:29 PM   #153
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As i posted in another damper thread
As I was saying a while back, I bought one from an inmate here to see what effect it would have after all the raves about sterring dampers.
Anyway I fitted it and although my initial thoughts were that it was vulnerable in that location, that is far from the truth.
Its actually very well hidden in between the top of the guard and the Telelever arm so its unlikely to get damaged, +1 in that regard.
I cant be damaged anymore than the Telelever arm can be.
I purchased it because it was a good price and didnt want to spend the mega bucks on the Rallye moto jobie until I knew it was worthwhile in concept.

I set it initially to ten clicks and went for a 600 k ride with a couple mates on an F800GS and a Super Tenere 1200.
The ride was about 50/50 mix of dirt and tar.

Well, to cut a long story short, this has been the best, most confidence inspiring addition Ive made to a bike in years.
I have never ridden my GSA as quickly and confidently in the dirt.
Everything is so much more predictable and easier to ride.

Couple of occasions I was going too quick and I nearly lost the front, under normal circumstances the front would have tucked under and I would have been gone but not anymore.
Just, much more stable and just a predictable front end slide.

Normally there is no way I would have been going that quick, it would have been way outside my comfort zone.

I dont think its placebo, as I wasnt really expecting much.
My mates even commented on several occasions, "what up with you, we cant keep up with you today"!!!
Normally Im the slower guy
Even on the road, it feels that it holds a line through corners much better.

Im converted, steering dampers make a massive difference, especially to someone like myself of limited experience in dirt.

Now I can keep up with the quick guys without crapping myself .

Its a keeper until I can get an even better one

Love it, very worthwhile for me

Now the initial excitment is over, Id better slow down before it turns ugly
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:54 PM   #154
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Question

So pardon the simple questions, but I want to be sure I undertand.
-- Put the GS on centerstand and weight the seat so that the front wheel is off the ground. I can move the wheel back and forth easily - it almost 'flops' - by the bars or just by grabbing the leading edge of the tire. So under the same circumstances with the damper installed, how is it different? Or is it?
-- From my physics classes I seem to remember that the damping was proportional to the force (or acceleration) applied; is that right?
So with a damper I would feel no different when steering easily (lightly and not too quickly) back and forth in my lane or along a curvey road?
So what would happen if I pushed strongly and quickly on the end of the bar? If I get less response, does that mean I have less control (under that particular circumstance)?
-- What does 'cranking it up' do?
-- What are the characteristics of a linear vs. a progresive damper?
Does it affect the effect of the 'clicks' or of the dynamic response of the damper for any given click setting?
-- How does any of the above explain people saying it makes the bike more stable in the wind? I think I can understand gusts, or the sudden pressure wave when meeting a large truck at speed. But what about steady wind?
-- Finally, since I don't do much off-road, but am interested, are people saying that the damper causes (helps?) the bar to resist the sudden forces applied to the tire from the sand, gravel, washboard, etc? And that makes it more stable and track true?

To those who reply and try to answer, my appreciation and thanks.
-ceej



Quote:
Originally Posted by pavement pounder
[/color] I would be the first to tell you I got taken.

It controls all high speed movement so any road variations, or anything that would normaly move the bars or more specifically, vibrate them, will be absorbed. Wind buffeting for example, is gone. Of course the bike still moves but the bars stay in line with the bike eliminating rider fatigue over long hauls. Of course, you all know the benefits off road. Gravel now feels much better because not only are the bars in better control, tail wag is somewhat reduced because now the bike is trying to overcome the centrifical force of the front wheel. The bar twitch on gravel is gone and they are no longer "floaty"

As for tank slappers, I've only ever had one and it was on an XL250 after hitting a baby head stuck in the dirt road I was on. I don't know how I pulled out of it, I didn't even know dampers existed then (long time ago!) Now I don't think I'd get myself into one with the GS but now I feel more confident that it wont.

I too have mine set to +- 10 clicks. Seems like a good spot. Any tighter and it starts to be felt at low speeds (ie. turning)
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:09 PM   #155
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Does anyone know the difference between the Hyperpro damper and the Scotts performance-wise? I have been happy with the Scotts on my old bike and I am a believer in the damper based on my experience.

I already have a Scotts damper but not the mount, and it may be more cost effective for me to get the Hyperpro and sell my Scotts and not have to buy the mount.

The mounting advantage I see with the Hyperpro is that it would not limit your use of handlebar risers like the Scotts would.

Any thoughts on the performance difference between the two?
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:11 AM   #156
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IMO if your a serious offroader the HyperPro would probably be weak in the long run. Probably wouldn't hold up.
It's more of a street application.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:53 AM   #157
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H98BgRzpOM&NR=1
http://image.sportrider.com/f/30631206/146_0910_09_z+world_superbike+wiring.jpg

SocalRob asked
Can you explain what affect a steering damper has on gyroscopic forces from a motorcycle? I can't picture how a damper affects gyroscopic forces in any way at all.”

Wiki notes:
********
Mathematically, the moment of inertia of the wheel is a tensor. That is, to a first approximation (neglecting deformations due to its elasticity) the wheel and axle assembly are a rigid rotor to which the engine and brakes apply a torque vector aligned with the axle. If that torque vector is not aligned with the principal axis of the moment of inertia, the resultant angular acceleration will be in a different direction from the applied torque. Whenever a rotor is forced to rotate about an axis that is not a principal axis, an external torque is needed. This is not a torque about the rotation axis (as in a driving or braking torque), but is a torque perpendicular to that direction.
********

To break down the function of a steering damper, first look at it independent of suspension and geometry set up. If you think of the wheels as two spinning masses, or gyros, that have the axis of rotation perpendicular to the same plane. The features that constrain this plane are the ground and the motorcycle geometry. For the simplified purpose, the only location that allows a degree of freedom is the steering stem. The steering stem axis coincides with this plane while the motorcycle is vertical at 0 degree lean. While both tires are on the ground, better yet, pavement and the motorcycle is above parking lot speeds, inputs on the bars attempt to change the orientation of the front wheel axis slightly from perpendicular to this plane. The pavement keeps the front wheel spinning in the same plane as the rear wheel leaving the only feature that allows movement the steering stem. The front wheel plane does misalign slightly from the rear which allows the bike to lean. This is why “counter steering” a motorcycle works above parking lot speed. When you pull a wheelie and the front wheel touches back on the ground just slightly off from center you feel a little wiggle as it matches speeds and dissipates the differential energy. When your wheel is significantly off center, you feel a tank slap. This is due to the front and rear wheel planes of rotational inertia trying to find equilibrium. While the front wheel is in the air, it is not constrained by the ground, but the moment it touches ground the only thing that can give is the steering stem (in this over simplified example). This is where a steering damper comes into play. It dampens to oscillation created by these unparallel rotating masses as it try to find equilibrium by dissipating the differential energy by heat created from the fluid thru an orifice. Any thing with two or more rotating masses can have this problem. How bad the affect can be is determined by the geometry, tire construction, surface conditions, rpm, weight of bike, input from rider… Having been thrown from a tank slapping SV650 at a reasonable pace, I will never run at pace without a steering damper on any bike.

Now looking at the R1200GS. Yes, it is a very stable platform under standard conditions. “Standard” is very subjective. This brings in the biggest variable, the rider. For those of you who say that the bike does not need at damper, you would be more correct by saying “My motorcycle does not need a steering damper for my type of riding”. Whereas another rider may have a different idea of “standard” riding conditions that may require a steering damper. Just like riders change suspension, tires, gearing… to fit their riding conditions/style. Many of you post stories of having a tank slapper and recovering. Much is a testament to the great geometry of the R1200GS, but the slapper could have been reduced dramatically with a damper.

On the other hand, my 05 gsxr race bike, requires a steering damper for the setup I run. I could make it more stable, but I would loose the ability to turn quickly, come off corners without loosing my line, maintain mid corner stability… I run my Ohlin’s damper at 5 clicks out from full stiff, which is borderline in the pits at slow speed, but is required at pace. A steering damper is a go-nogo item for my riding style and configuration. If I changed from Dunlop’s to Pirellis, this condition would ease up. This due to the soft construction of the Pirelli and decreased diameter of the tire. The soft carcass adds another degree of freedom and acts as another damper. Rotational inertia is also the reason why racers who want to improve their bike handling response run smaller rotors, removing counter balancers, and making quick turns in low RPM’s.

To continue babbling on, my stock 83 Suzuki gs750 had a lovely habit of head shaking sometimes above 95mph. Why “sometimes” could be attributed to weight distribution, total weight, rider input, road surface conditions. The concept, when in doubt, throttle out makes some sense as it changes weight distribution (CG) and geometry. From a rotational inertia perspective, this could add to the problem as the increase in wheel speed would increases the rotational energy which could add to the problem.

When on dirt, the front wheel is likely to get a dynamic impact like a rock that will dramatically change the steering head angle and thus induce a tank slapper. You will see that Baja racers most defiantly use steering dampers and with the development of high/low speed dampers they are now being used on motocross bikes.

Now back to why I was looking at this thread for starters… I need a steering damper for my R1200GSA. Love this bike. But to keep my rider inputs incheck I need a steering damper. I would love to mount an Ohlins but they do not make a specific unit for this bike. I was looking into designing and machining a mount for a one of their units, but I would rather spend that time riding. I knew about hyperpro but heard one snipit about leaking. The top mount Scotts and Ralle Moto require relocating current cockpit components and/or raising the bars which I do not want to do. Thus the only linear damper that is available is the hyperpro. Having seen the great feedback on this post, I will go with the hyperpro and take my chances. If anyone has had experience with leaky hyperpros please let me know. Maybe a dust shield can be configured for this application. I have not suffered a leak on an Ohlins with 5 years on the latest one.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:26 PM   #158
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Active? Or non-active?

Has anybody tried both the active & the in-active? Which works best on a GS Adventure?

Thank you.
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:42 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRE View Post
Has anybody tried both the active & the in-active? Which works best on a GS Adventure?

Thank you.

Well after a full season of riding with a hyperpro on my GS, I'll give a ride report and a comparison to the Scotts which I have on a V-strom 1000.

First of all, I will never ride a bike without one now.

When I put the hyperpro (RCS), it made a huge immediate difference in the handling of the bike. It made turns smoother, on pavement or hardpack and holds the bars steady on sections of loose gravel. On dry hard roads, you can turn up the adjustment to tighten things up and it feels nice. Also, with the RCS feature, if you hit a obstacle that causes the bars to suddenly shift side to side, it will hold them harder during the shock period.

Where you have to be careful with the hyperpro is that it has full damping "lock to lock". I don't like this part of the h-pro since it makes parking a bit tense if you turn it up too much, plus, on long rides on gravel roads, you need to turn it down otherwise you can induce tail-wag and even cause a shear (ask me how I know). Turning it down to the right point takes the jiggles out of the bars and reduces rider fatigue like crazy.

A big bonus with stabilizer vs none, in side winds etc, you don't need to fight the bars much if any. On pave, you can crank it up and ride. no need to worry about side winds. Of course, on the loose stuff, you have to keep the traction in mind and just how loose everything is beneath you.

hyperpro vs ohlins/scotts, if you're doing a lot of off road, get the scotts. It allows a narrow damping band and loose at full lock. This allows you to turn up the damping force for gravel and not worry about it causing tail wag. However, properly adjusted, the hyperpro worked great on my trip to Labrador which is +- 1000 kms of loose gravel (when I say loose, I mean it, read anyone's ride report, they'll tell you!).

either way, it's worth the money and they are both great. The scotts of course allows you to adjust as you ride since it is mounted high and the hyperpro is mounted just out of reach.

buy one, you'll like it.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:40 PM   #160
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Well said Charlie B and I absolutely agree

I liked it so much that I upgraded to the Ralle-Moto but kind of regret doing so now.
The Hyperpro does everything I need for the riding I do and is very unintrusive whereas the Ralle Moto is in your face.
The Ralle-Moto which is an awesome piece of work is also fantastic with a lot of extra options BUT is not so easily reversible if you want to remove and sell the bike due to having to press bearings in.

If your more hardcore then fair enough but Im only really doing long distance, gravel roads like below and the rare sandy bits then the Hyperpro is excellent.

In hindsight, I should have just left the Hyperpro on, it worked great and would have saved a lot of money and time.

Still very happy though

As Charlie B said, I wouldnt ride without one


1coolbanana screwed with this post 12-27-2010 at 05:47 PM
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:04 PM   #161
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Thanks Charlie B for the Hyperpro vs. Scotts summary!

I ended up getting the Hyperpro and selling my Scotts. The deciding factor was risers, you can't really mount a Scott's with handlebar risers and definitely not with the Rox Risers which I ever so desperately needed.

The Hyperpro went on easily and as others have said, you have to move it around in the clamps a bit to make sure it is not binding when at full steering lock. I am riding with it at 10 clicks, my damper is the active one and it has 24 clicks total, not 20 as many have said. It's strange, I increased the preload up to 12 clicks and it was way too stiff. A little bit makes a big difference as you increase the preload in the mid-range.

No one needs to convince me of the benefits of a steering damper and it worked as expected on my Xmas ride from San Francisco down to LA and back. It does make the bike feel as if it is on rails. I had very strong cross winds on the way back and the damper made a big difference.

Oh and Klaus at EPM is running a special in the BMW MOA magazine right now....10% off retail on the damper. If you are considering buying one now may be a good time!
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:22 AM   #162
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any love for 1150's?

has there been any word on the 1150 model from Hyperco?

this is something Id love to get. i ride over so many trails with rocks and deep sand...this seems to be a great upgrade.

so where's the love for the 1150?
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #163
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Having never used a steering dampener, is there a big improvement in the twisties or for a track day session? I am tempted just based on the gravel and wind benefits.

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Old 12-28-2010, 02:58 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I never felt the need either.

Jim

Yea me neither. In over 50k miles of rough roads, uneven pavement, windy conditions, and passing trucks has the 1100GS felt anything less than rock steady.
Twitchy simply isn't in this bike's vocabulary.

I'll be leaving the money in the bank for a transmission upgrade some day when it's starts to skip.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:25 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavement pounder View Post
Well after a full season of riding with a hyperpro on my GS, I'll give a ride report and a comparison to the Scotts which I have on a V-strom 1000.

First of all, I will never ride a bike without one now.

When I put the hyperpro (RCS), it made a huge immediate difference in the handling of the bike. It made turns smoother, on pavement or hardpack and holds the bars steady on sections of loose gravel. On dry hard roads, you can turn up the adjustment to tighten things up and it feels nice. Also, with the RCS feature, if you hit a obstacle that causes the bars to suddenly shift side to side, it will hold them harder during the shock period.

Where you have to be careful with the hyperpro is that it has full damping "lock to lock". I don't like this part of the h-pro since it makes parking a bit tense if you turn it up too much, plus, on long rides on gravel roads, you need to turn it down otherwise you can induce tail-wag and even cause a shear (ask me how I know). Turning it down to the right point takes the jiggles out of the bars and reduces rider fatigue like crazy.

A big bonus with stabilizer vs none, in side winds etc, you don't need to fight the bars much if any. On pave, you can crank it up and ride. no need to worry about side winds. Of course, on the loose stuff, you have to keep the traction in mind and just how loose everything is beneath you.

hyperpro vs ohlins/scotts, if you're doing a lot of off road, get the scotts. It allows a narrow damping band and loose at full lock. This allows you to turn up the damping force for gravel and not worry about it causing tail wag. However, properly adjusted, the hyperpro worked great on my trip to Labrador which is +- 1000 kms of loose gravel (when I say loose, I mean it, read anyone's ride report, they'll tell you!).

either way, it's worth the money and they are both great. The scotts of course allows you to adjust as you ride since it is mounted high and the hyperpro is mounted just out of reach.

buy one, you'll like it.
Do you remember what setting (or how many clicks) you use on the Trans-Lab?
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