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Old 09-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #18331
MotoTex
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Originally Posted by cory1848 View Post
I think the real problem is that no one knows what the cause is. Some people have had success "fixing" by swapping tires, suspension, hubs, entire front end but IMO that is fixing the symptoms, not the cause. My 2013 XC has is and it is annoying as hell. Put any weight on the bag, even empty cases, and the handling goes to shit. The only thing I have left to try is a full replacement of internal parts. Traxxion AK-20 kit goes for $1300. I am tempting to just do that and call it a day. I would lose that amount of money 3 fold if I were to trade it in on something else. I want to start enjoying my bike but the front end makes it difficult.
I keep reading about this and feel lucky to not have experienced the problem.

Yesterday I put the Caribou 40L panniers on and made a run to town to fill up with fuel and pick up a couple of 12-packs of soda. It was about a thirty mile round trip and I was carving corners as if the bags weren't there in both directions. I have never experienced wheel hop on this bike over the 6K miles I have on it.

This 2013 800XC has the pre-load on the shock about eight clicks off from fully preloaded, I have a tank bag (maybe eight pounds) a tail bag (probably ten pounds with tubes, slime pump, tire tools, and rain gear) and it is shod with Shinko 705's. Rider weight with gear is around 250 pounds.

There must be something different on the bikes experiencing the issue, maybe this data will help in some way.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #18332
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I've posted before about the XC "hop" and will again, I guess. I had it early on, but took the time to true my front wheel after the spokes had bedded in, and that cured it entirely. Weight on the back of the bike makes no difference. Anyone who owns an XC and has the "hop" issue would be well served to perform a simple check of the front wheel trueness.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #18333
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Originally Posted by Yossarian
I've posted before about the XC "hop" and will again, I guess. I had it early on, but took the time to true my front wheel after the spokes had bedded in, and that cured it entirely. Weight on the back of the bike makes no difference. Anyone who owns an XC and has the "hop" issue would be well served to perform a simple check of the front wheel trueness.
^^ This.

I really think it's a cause of out of true and/or tire balance. Once it starts I'm pretty sure it will wear a tire unevenly making curing it even more difficult.

I had it pretty bad on a road trip after removing my FB's and putting the stock trails back on. Didn't get the balance right, had the hop. Stemhead bearings were a bit loose too, not much grease on them. And there's a service bulletin on the head bearings, something about changing a washer between the bearing stop nut and the upper triple clamp. I didn't bother with it, everything went back together fine.

Anyone with wheel hop needs to tune their spokes and balance their tire. That'll probly fix it or at least reduce it dramatically.

I don't know how many peeps check their spoke tension. Both the Tiger and my Husky get loose spokes. I tap them with a spoke wrench for the 'tink' sound that should be a ring and not a thud. If the wheel is true in the first place, tightening all the spokes the same will leave it true. Tune them by sound. I suspect run-out is highly critical for this setup.

An ounce out of balance will also be felt on the front end at varying speeds. Get a Parm balancer and do them yourself. I use the axle on a couple of crates allowing the axle to rotate and not rely on the wheel bearing - they induce too much friction. If the axle can rotate you can get very close to perfect balance. I notice vibration starting at speeds over 85-90. I rarely ride that fast. Motion-pro sells a box of wheel weights that are narrow enough to fit on the rim lip. Weights for car wheels are too wide, will not fit right on a motorcycle rim. The husky has a rim lock and can take 3 or more ounces of balance weights - that's a lot of quarter-ounce little tire weights. There' a row on each side of the rim. I have a few lead weights I'll throw in there, they take up a LOT less space than the damn steel ones we can now only get here in CA. F'ing nanny state.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:28 PM   #18334
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
I've posted before about the XC "hop" and will again, I guess. I had it early on, but took the time to true my front wheel after the spokes had bedded in, and that cured it entirely. Weight on the back of the bike makes no difference. Anyone who owns an XC and has the "hop" issue would be well served to perform a simple check of the front wheel trueness.
Dealer checked it for me when I was first complaining about the problem. So unless they told me they checked it and really didn't, I can rule that out. As I have mentioned previously in my post, all the "simple" checks have been done. I don't believe there is a one all simple fix for this otherwise Triumph wouldn't be authorizing wheel and front end replacement parts to try and cure it. Wish it was that simple in my case.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:09 PM   #18335
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Dealer checked it for me when I was first complaining about the problem. So unless they told me they checked it and really didn't, I can rule that out. As I have mentioned previously in my post, all the "simple" checks have been done. I don't believe there is a one all simple fix for this otherwise Triumph wouldn't be authorizing wheel and front end replacement parts to try and cure it. Wish it was that simple in my case.
A fellow once told me, "you get what you inspect, not what you expect."

Get the front wheel in the air so it will spin. Put a zip-tie on the fork leg and rotate the long end to the edge of the rim, or hold a straight-edge or a pencil against the fork leg with a pointy end near the inner or outer edge of the wheel.

Turn the wheel and look for the edge of the rim to deviate up or down from the pointy end. This is how you check for out of round.

While you are turning the wheel, also look for the edge of the rim to move toward or away from the pointy end of whatever you are using, side to side. This is how to check for true.

Now you will know by your own hand whether or not the wheel is out of round and/or of true.

Sometimes mechanics only get the scribblings describing the problem by whoever took the bike in. Often the brief note on the ticket isn't enough for them to completely understand the details of the problem.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:13 AM   #18336
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A fellow once told me, "you get what you inspect, not what you expect."

Get the front wheel in the air so it will spin. Put a zip-tie on the fork leg and rotate the long end to the edge of the rim, or hold a straight-edge or a pencil against the fork leg with a pointy end near the inner or outer edge of the wheel.

Turn the wheel and look for the edge of the rim to deviate up or down from the pointy end. This is how you check for out of round.

While you are turning the wheel, also look for the edge of the rim to move toward or away from the pointy end of whatever you are using, side to side. This is how to check for true.

Now you will know by your own hand whether or not the wheel is out of round and/or of true.

Sometimes mechanics only get the scribblings describing the problem by whoever took the bike in. Often the brief note on the ticket isn't enough for them to completely understand the details of the problem.
I have done that and cannot see any real issues that would cause me to strip it down and retrue it. The dealer put in on their truing stand and said it was within spec so they ruled that out.

I will be changing tires soon and will be doing that myself. I will buy one of those truing stands and tools to triple check it myself. I really hope it is something that simple to fix, would save a lot of headaches, however I am not optimistic about it.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:04 AM   #18337
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I have done that and cannot see any real issues that would cause me to strip it down and retrue it. The dealer put in on their truing stand and said it was within spec so they ruled that out.

I will be changing tires soon and will be doing that myself. I will buy one of those truing stands and tools to triple check it myself. I really hope it is something that simple to fix, would save a lot of headaches, however I am not optimistic about it.
So, where else would a front end bump come from when rolling on a smooth surface? It has to come from the wheel assembly/front end of the bike. It ain't commin' from the back!

If the stemhead bearings are loose then any undulations could cause an occilating sensation.

There just aren't that many variables up there...just go thru everything step by step. Start with tire balance, check for a lumpy tire, cupping wear, etc..
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:47 AM   #18338
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So, where else would a front end bump come from when rolling on a smooth surface? It has to come from the wheel assembly/front end of the bike. It ain't commin' from the back!

If the stemhead bearings are loose then any undulations could cause an occilating sensation.

There just aren't that many variables up there...just go thru everything step by step. Start with tire balance, check for a lumpy tire, cupping wear, etc..
It can. I rode a Yamaha V-Star that had a similar bounce. Drove me and the dealer nuts, they checked/adjusted everything in the front and even started playing with fork oil weights, heights etc. Turned out to be an out of balance rear tire/wheel that would transmit the oscillations up through the frame. The rear never did bounce or give any hint that the problem was back there.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:38 PM   #18339
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It can. I rode a Yamaha V-Star that had a similar bounce. Drove me and the dealer nuts, they checked/adjusted everything in the front and even started playing with fork oil weights, heights etc. Turned out to be an out of balance rear tire/wheel that would transmit the oscillations up through the frame. The rear never did bounce or give any hint that the problem was back there.
Well...I'll be dipped in shit!!

So yeah, I would start with tire balance then, front and back, and for any tire wear anomolies or bulges in the tread. I'm thinking minor cupping on the front that would be very difficult to see could cause this bouncing sensation. When mine was doing it it was only when leaned over just a bit in a sweeper at fairly low speed. At higher speed it becomes a vibration do to frequency of the imbalance point as the wheel turns.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:35 PM   #18340
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I've posted before about the XC "hop" and will again, I guess. I had it early on, but took the time to true my front wheel after the spokes had bedded in, and that cured it entirely. Weight on the back of the bike makes no difference. Anyone who owns an XC and has the "hop" issue would be well served to perform a simple check of the front wheel trueness.
What front tyre are you running, I have a TKC 80, I have done the same and put it down to the tyre. I have heard of this on other bikes with TKC and knobby tyres!
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:47 AM   #18341
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What front tyre are you running, I have a TKC 80, I have done the same and put it down to the tyre. I have heard of this on other bikes with TKC and knobby tyres!
There was no tire change involved in the "cure". I'm running the Battlewings.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:53 AM   #18342
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So, where else would a front end bump come from when rolling on a smooth surface? It has to come from the wheel assembly/front end of the bike. It ain't commin' from the back!

If the stemhead bearings are loose then any undulations could cause an occilating sensation.

There just aren't that many variables up there...just go thru everything step by step. Start with tire balance, check for a lumpy tire, cupping wear, etc..
Suspension. Specifically comp and rebound damping. Yossarian's fix doesn't take into account that some of those with the roadie with cast wheels have the same issue. That points me in the direction of a suspension issue.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:04 AM   #18343
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Suspension. Specifically comp and rebound damping. Yossarian's fix doesn't take into account that some of those with the roadie with cast wheels have the same issue. That points me in the direction of a suspension issue.
True. I never did claim mine was "THE" fix. I merely encouraged anyone with an XC, who has the issue, to at least check the wheels for true before chasing more expensive solutions.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:28 AM   #18344
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Suspension. Specifically comp and rebound damping. Yossarian's fix doesn't take into account that some of those with the roadie with cast wheels have the same issue. That points me in the direction of a suspension issue.
Sorry...not buyin' it. You don't get the 'bump' on a HD, honda 90, cheapo chinese bikes, or any other manner of ill-suspensioned machines. Why would this be an issue for just the Triumph 800?

I must be completely missing something here. I'm gonna butt-out and leave it to the 'experts'.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:36 AM   #18345
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Sorry...not buyin' it. You don't get the 'bump' on a HD, honda 90, cheapo chinese bikes, or any other manner of ill-suspensioned machines. Why would this be an issue for just the Triumph 800?

I must be completely missing something here. I'm gonna butt-out and leave it to the 'experts'.
Sounds like a Six Sigma Blackbelt project to me
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