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Old 09-08-2010, 09:21 PM   #31
MJS
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Location: SD, CA, Baja or somewhere else
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05 GS, 65k miles, lots of off-road and some air time. Just sent them tto Woody as the rear appeared to have some wobble. Verdict was the rims were within BMW spec at the tire seating surface (the part that matters).

Woody filled the front diviot and sent them back. No work needed on the rear wheel and this bike has blown out shocks and crowned the shock mounting bolts from hard landings. The wheels are strong (way more than the KTM of 800GS wheels).

Cheers,
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:50 PM   #32
Iraj
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Thanks Woody. You may get them if I can't cure the problem at the dealer.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:50 PM   #33
Sandman
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Problems with spoked wheels

I'm currently on my 5th GS ADV, all from the same local dealer.

I had two GS 1150 Adv's (2003 and 2004), and had no wheel or rotor problems with these two bikes. (The 2003 surged, and the 2004 blew
a rear seal and contaminated the clutch).

I traded the 2004 1150 in, and bought a new 2007 GS 1200 Adv. Quite quickly I noticed and complained about two issues:

1) both wheels out of round (= wheel hop, and handlebar shake / vibration)

2) warped front rotors (= pulsing brakes)

The response from my local dealer was sympathetic, but neither issue was ever solved (several new wheels were ordered, but they were as bad or worse than the originals). They basically threw in the towel regarding the wheels.

As a direct consequence of my dissatisfaction with these issues, in early
2008 I traded the bike in on a brand new 2008 GS 1200 Adv, hoping that both
these issues had been resolved.

In fact, I had both of the same issues with the new 2008 bike, although
I would say that perhaps the severity is slightly less than with the 2007
(that one was BAD!!). My dealer replaced the front rotors and carriers, and that solved the pulsing brake issue. Both wheels remained out of round, and this was evident enough to cause irritation, and a significant reduction in the "rideability" and rider satisfaction that we all expect and deserve from a high quality BMW product.

I recently traded my 2008 ADV in on a new 2010 ADV. I feel there is still a smaller amount of out of round issues with both wheels on this one, but it's early days (only 2200 km). We'll see.

Ideally, I would like to get Woody to make both my new wheels "round" and true", and it's not really the money that's stopping me. It's the fact that I ride almost every day, and have no car.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #34
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well we have solutions for your ''no car'' plight....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
I'm currently on my 5th GS ADV, all from the same local dealer.......

....Ideally, I would like to get Woody to make both my new wheels "round" and true", and it's not really the money that's stopping me. It's the fact that I ride almost every day, and have no car.
sandman ,,,et al,, we have solutions to most of your ''problems''
well we do have ''loaner wheels'',,,,
but ya have to pay the postage to n fro

good chance/opportunity to try a 21'' while you are at it...

hope that wasn't spam

woody
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:56 AM   #35
slartidbartfast
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Rear wheel and tire currently on my 95 1100GSA came from a 2000 1150GS that spent ~2 years in the ocean (as in laying on the bottom.) Wheel looks pretty scabby but is straight and strong. No probs with front or previous rear wheel over ~50K miles either.

Don't know if the cross-spoke design has any inherent problems other than being harder to build/true than traditional arrangements. I love the whole concept of tubeless spoked wheels and wish I could have them on other bikes too.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #36
Cranky Yankee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Ideally, I would like to get Woody to make both my new wheels "round" and true", and it's not really the money that's stopping me. It's the fact that I ride almost every day, and have no car.
If money is not the issue why not have Woody build another set for you, once you get them send the others to him for truing.

Then you can put knobbies on one set and street tires on the other.

That is basically what I did for my 2007 GSA except I didn't need the originals trued. That and I live 30 miles away from Woody so shipping didn't amount to much.

Both sets have been up to 100mph with no vibration. I also balance my wheels myself.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:20 PM   #37
def
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Who has had problems with cross spoke wheels?

Not I.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:12 PM   #38
fishkens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Beemer Bob,

First you have a GS not the Adventure and I did not know they came with spoked tubless BMW wheels..
Haven't GSs been delivered with spoked tubless wheels since 1988? Mine did in 1988. Did they go to a spoked tubed wheel at some point after that?

Just curious.
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Old 09-11-2010, 03:02 AM   #39
woody's wheel works
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what is ''tire blaming''....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaniard
is when you are "blaming" your tires for your own lack of skill
when your wheel is ''out of round'' and your salesman/service department ''blame'' the tire you have on it for the ill handling,,,

in the case of your X spoked wheels,,,a common occurence in dealerships across the country,,,,the most scape-goated of the tire marques and model were the Metzler ''Tourances''....

these are pretty sticky road oriented tires,,,they like to stick and not squirm underneath you like the knobbier tires you just replaced which hid the fact that your wheel was out of round...

after the trie swap,,your bike started handling bad,,weaving etc,,,,

sooo pay attention and 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater',,,if your bike handles bad after a tire swap to more road oriented tires,,CHECK your wheel for true!!!

FYI,,,IMHO,,,metzler puts out some of the straightest tires around

woody
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:48 AM   #40
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I have pre-delivery inspected Mcdozens of bikes with X spoked wheels from airheads to 1200's. They are almost always more than a little out of wack. Very often they are WAY out of wack. And this is all on brand new bikes! I have often considered swapping my Mono mags for X spokes because those K bike mags are SO heavy. 90% of all X wheels I have ever seen brand new are too out of round for me to use on my bike. I have enough chatter issues as it is! I don't need a wobble for a wheel. It's a good thing Woody has figured them out. Other than not being straight, they are GREAT wheels! And now we can have our cake and eat it too!

supershaft screwed with this post 09-13-2010 at 12:55 AM
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:52 AM   #41
darkcat
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Bluhduh +1

Since for a long time lurking here this is the first typing here.Hi to everybody is there.Yes I also have problem with front tire sensing tingling/vibrating on handle bar and front fork while speed around 60 km/h(40 mph).Here my around no mechanic can handle it I guess will wait tire change very soon may be cause of tire life which is battle wing oem (21000 km).Than we'll see.This is my first 12GSA 2008 that was bought new.Greetings.
ps:sorry for my english from now.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:24 AM   #42
woody's wheel works
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how to have your cake and eat it too AND get the icing ya dreamed of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
I have pre-delivery inspected Mcdozens of bikes with X spoked wheels from airheads to 1200's. They are almost always more than a little out of wack. Very often they are WAY out of wack. And this is all on brand new bikes! I have often considered swapping my Mono mags for X spokes because those K bike mags are SO heavy. 90% of all X wheels I have ever seen brand new are too out of round for me to use on my bike. I have enough chatter issues as it is! I don't need a wobble for a wheel. It's a good thing Woody has figured them out. Other than not being straight, they are GREAT wheels! And now we can have our cake and eat it too!
well,why not some icing??,,,what flavor???,,, what color???,,,rims,,,hubs,,,spokes???

yes it IS possible to get these wheels which i consider one of the very best designs on the market to:

1,,accomplish and optimize their design virtues by running true +/- .015'' or less in any direction thus eliminating hop/wobble/vibration by re-truing

2,,correct the man-made manufacturing error caused by the over zealousness of the 'divot grinder' grinding too much of the excess weld off the inside beads...corrected by cleaning ,filling in the divots with metal epoxy and machining for concentricity,,,,thus eliminating the blips in the tire and another possible cause to set up vibrations

3,,and while you are doing this you are at the perfect crossroad to say i'd like this or that color rim/hub/ or things like polished ss spokes using re-anodizing or powder-coat techniques

that's how ya get the best technology and have it work as good as it could look and look as good as it could work...
ie,,having your cake,,getting your cake,,eating your cake PLUS your choice of icing
w
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:42 AM   #43
Stanza
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Gday Woody, well I can reply with some info.

My bike Australian 07 GS 20,000k's

Had someone rear end me when bike was 2 weeks old (hit on right side, fell over on left side), $4,500 damage Replaced new rear frame, right foot peg, muffler, tail light etc etc.

After repairs... mate following me said (hey your back wheels wobbling).

Got off and checked....and yes there is a little run out (about 1cm)

Took it back too dealer who did crash repairs, and suggested maybe they missed the rear wheel damage from the crash....

They looked at rear wheel and said Hmmm.....as they do. But when we checked around the workshop and the dealer floor at other bikes...

They ALL had exactly they same run out in the same position.... Seriously ALL of them. Which was about 9 bikes in total.

Sorry can't remember now exactly WHERE in the rim the run out was... but I remember it being around the valve stem (don't hold me to this tho)

Suggestions was it was original untrueness (is that a word?) from the welding at the factory. Hence the factory spec run out alowed amount of 1.5cm Which mine fell under.

It's probably a load of bullshit speak, the beads being welded to the wheel? and the heat of this possibly warping them all untrue... you would know if this was possible or not ( I havn't had a tyre off to inspect the actual wheel myself)??

Never noticed or felt any wobble, vibration etc when riding the bike. And I still have it and ride on the same rear wheel.

your thoughts?
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:11 AM   #44
woody's wheel works
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BMW rear wheel runout 1.5cm or 1.5mm,,BIG difference!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanza
Gday Woody, well I can reply with some info.g'day stanza,,and i'll throw a lil light on your reply

My bike Australian 07 GS 20,000k's
Had someone rear end me ....
After repairs... mate following me said (hey your back wheels wobbling).

Got off and checked....and yes there is a little run out (about 1cm)

1cm?????,,,1cm=10mm,,now that's some major run-out!!!,,,are ya sure ya didn't mean 1mm???,,any way,,when ya have the bike on the center-stand and start motor ,,,put in first,,go back and watch the tire,,that's the important part,,,because if ya watch or measure the wheel from the outside flanges , you will always get an erroneous reading..Why???,,because in the area of the weld, which is directly opposite of the valve-stem the Behr maestros often overzealously grind this territory...ya can tell it's done by hand becsuse of the variations,,,,net result though even after they try to blend in this territory is a rim that will be sometime 2-3mm narrower overall,,,

however ,,it's the inside of the bead that determines where your tire actually goes,,,that area although dreadful when compared to what other rim manufacturers routinely produce is closer,,,BMW thinks 1.5mm variation/runout is ok,,you all know my stand on this

Took it back too dealer who did crash repairs, and suggested maybe they missed the rear wheel damage from the crash....

They looked at rear wheel and said Hmmm.....as they do. But when we checked around the workshop and the dealer floor at other bikes...

They ALL had exactly they same run out in the same position.... Seriously ALL of them. Which was about 9 bikes in total.

Suggestions was it was original untrueness (is that a word?) from the welding at the factory. Hence the factory spec run out alowed amount of 1.5cm Which mine fell under.

unfortunately,,,that is the case,,,what's even more unfortunate for you is that the tech sheet provided to request warranty work spells out 'the territory 60 degrees to either side of the weld is ''off-limits'' to the 1.5mm runout' measurement,,,,,that's a 120 degree arc=1/3rd of the wheel that is a no mans land to measurement !!!!!,,,,,the 1.5mm or .060'' total run-out spec applies to the remaining 240 degrees...as long as you are using knobbies it will not affect you too much, because the knobs squirm and cover up the malady,,,,put some sticky street rubber on and watch -out!

It's probably a load of bullshit speak, the beads being welded to the wheel? and the heat of this possibly warping them all untrue... you would know if this was possible or not ( I havn't had a tyre off to inspect the actual wheel myself)??

Never noticed or felt any wobble, vibration etc when riding the bike. And I still have it and ride on the same rear wheel.well ,,,i think i covered all your bases with my observations,,,tell me though,,ya really did mean 1.5mm and not 1.5centimeters,,ehhh??? ,,,although i have to admit it often sure looks like 1.5cm

your thoughts?
woody
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........If you're lost???... GPS = 39*40'33.86N x 104*59'54.69W

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Old 10-17-2010, 05:43 PM   #45
Iraj
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Bluhduh Problem With Cross Spokes

2009 standard GS, but with wire wheels: I wrote about this in a previous post. At about 5k miles, after about 200 feet on a dirt road, and two minor potholes at 10 MPH, I got back on the tarmac without incident. The front wheel was out of round. I stopped and checked the spokes -- many were quite loose, not only at the point where the the rim was dished.

Took it to a local shop (Montrose, Colorado) where they worked without knowing about the grub (set) screws -- thanks to Woody for his pointer. The wheel wasn't unsafe, only annoying, so, with no real positive results or hope of them, I rode it the rest of the route -- including over John Burr Trail. Nothing challenging, and the 200 feet of dirt was nothing!

Back at BMW of SF, they tell me BMW won't cover it. They say they don't cover road damage, and it was rider error. (I don't see how riding the GS the way it's supposed to be ridden is rider error. Quite a few folks on this list were under the impression the wheel was under warranty. You lose.) I wrote a long letter to BWW NA, got a flack catcher to call me and tell me he was processing the claim. About 10 days later, he called me to tell me engineering was rejecting the claim.

My thoughts are the SF shop didn't do a good job at the first service, and didn't tighten the spokes. (They admitted they don't true wheels. Having never experienced loose spokes on the 10 cross-spoke bikes I've owned, I didn't think to check myself.) So the bike came from the factory with loose spokes and their dealer fell down on the job.

This is the first time in over 500,00 miles, mostly on airheads, I've had to plead with BMW to cover their bike. I'm pissed.
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