Who has had problems with cross spoke wheels?

[BobbySands]

I haven't had a lick of trouble with my spoked wheels. I'm not sure I'd even bother with a 1mm runout on either front or rear.

Perhaps coming dirt bikes has framed my expectations of what a wheel should and shouldn't be.

Simply saying, 'I was riding my moto off the road and your BMW literature says, "UNstoppable" therefore any damage that occurs from this sort of riding should be covered under warranty.' seems to me to be a load of hog anus.

Anyone of us could take a set of Woody's exel creations or anyone's custom built, better than OEM wheels and bash the living hell out of them. And then we could call woody and say, 'well, you made these wheels for a BMW GS which you know is UNstoppable so this is a warranty.' You might as well try calling Exel with the same claim.

Let's see how far you get with that? Maybe it was a shoddy wheel, maybe someone can't pick a line or was riding above their heads and smacked into something square at speed. All the company can (woody included) is look at the damage and it's generally not hard to tell impact damage from a wheel that is manufactured out of spec. Checking your spokes is something you're supposed to do at the 600 mile and 6k service. If you can't be bothered then shame on you.

I've built hundreds of high end bicycle wheels (road and mountain) and trued loads of moto wheels (albeit never a set of BMW wheels).

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by Iraj

2009 standard GS, but with wire wheels: I wrote about this in a previous post. At about 5k miles, after about 200 feet on a dirt road, and two minor potholes at 10 MPH, I got back on the tarmac without incident. The front wheel was out of round. I stopped and checked the spokes -- many were quite loose, not only at the point where the the rim was dished.

now here is where ya should have stopped and called your dealer and see what to do about it,,,will they approve of getting the wheel shipped to me to have it trued and tightened,,,everyday more n more dealers are sending in wheels[many brand new never on bike] to get em touched up as well as having the divots repaired....

riders cruising through get repaired on the spot,,,,,good on ya for trying to get em tightened ,,however if that many were loose most folks would be hard pressed to get the spokes properly torqued down without getting th ew heel even further out of wack...



Took it to a local shop (Montrose, Colorado) where they worked without knowing about the grub (set) screws they won't be the first or the last that get snookered by them liil devils...-- thanks to Woody for his pointer. The wheel wasn't unsafe,if you have as many spokes loose like you said you have an UNSAFE wheel assy,,because the loose spokes are getting hammered every time the wheel rotates,,,, only annoying, so, with no real positive results or hope of them, I rode it the rest of the route -- including over John Burr Trail. Nothing challenging, and the 200 feet of dirt was nothing!

Back at BMW of SF, they tell me BMW won't cover it. They say they don't cover road damage, and it was rider error. (I don't see how riding the GS the way it's supposed to be ridden is rider error. Quite a few folks on this list were under the impression the wheel was under warranty. You lose.) I wrote a long letter to BWW NA, got a flack catcher to call me and tell me he was processing the claim. About 10 days later, he called me to tell me engineering was rejecting the claim.

My thoughts are the SF shop didn't do a good job at the first service,now that's where ya might want o get some leverage,,,, and didn't tighten the spokes. (They admitted they don't true wheels. Having never experienced loose spokes on the 10 cross-spoke bikes I've owned, I didn't think to check myself.) So the bike came from the factory with loose spokes and their dealer fell down on the job.i doubt if the spokes came with loose spokes from the factory,,,the odds are you were one of the souls that has extra big serrated edges under the spoke head,,,these keep the spoke frorm spinning ,,,when ya drive eventually they seat in later than the shorter edges,,,hence loosen up significantly more/loose than the others....after pretruing the wheel ,,it is necessary IMHO to set the spoke heads,,,and the retighten/true,,,only then will your true job have a ghost of achance at providing you many miles of trouble free service...

you going on that bumpy road caused larger loads to seat in i bet....

This is the first time in over 500,00 miles, mostly on airheads, I've had to plead with BMW to cover their bike. I'm pissed.

Please go back to your dealer with a copy of some of the posts dealing with these issues and armed with the fact that they are fixable and also there are many precedents of BMW paying for the true/repair job. it usually works that you pay me,,the dealer re-imburses you and BMWNA takes care of the dealer.....

OBTW,,i do believe you that you weren't abusing your bike,,,AND we do send an analysis of your wheel and what went wrong etc
w

[Warthog]

I've been running my OEM spoke wheels on my HP2 for the past 3 years, on and off. I ride 'em pretty hard, rocks and ruts and edge hits. I've trued the front wheel twice. Unlike standard spoke wheels, with nipple on the rim, BMW wheels have nipple on the hub. Takes fewer turns to get effect at the rim. So, take it easy and turn lightly, then check for true. Otherwise, you may over-crank and make the wobble worse.

Anyway, I'm pretty well impressed with the wheels, as I ride 'er pretty hard through all kinds of hard hits. My Woody Wheels are stronger and narrower for dirt...but OEM ain't bad.

[Englishmatt]

What is the correct torque setting for the spokes? Not sure I've haeard or seen that yet?

Coming off a KTM 990 I'm used to the spoked wheels and spoke maintenance. Not saying I could true a set of x-laced, but I can atleast tell if the spoke are torqued correctly, then decide to send them to Woody if need be.

Please advise on the torque setting?

Thanks,

Matt.

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by Englishmatt

What is the correct torque setting for the spokes? Not sure I've haeard or seen that yet?

Coming off a KTM 990 I'm used to the spoked wheels and spoke maintenance. Not saying I could true a set of x-laced, but I can atleast tell if the spoke are torqued correctly, then decide to send them to Woody if need be.

Please advise on the torque setting?

Thanks,

Matt.

Wheels and tyres
Quick-release axle in axle holder, M24 x 1.5	50 Nm (37 ft-lbs)
Rear wheel to wheel carrier, M10 x 1.25	in diagonally opposite sequence 60 Nm (44 ft-lbs)
Nipple on spoke, M4 5mm allen R100GS/R1100GS T-40 torx bit everything newer	4 Nm (3 ft-lbs) Variant, Cross-spoked wheels
Initial torque, spokes, M4	1 Nm (1 ft-lbs) Variant, Cross-spoked wheels
Counter-hold spokes, M4 ie the ''grub screw'' =2mmallen	1 Nm (1 ft-lbs) Variant, Cross-spoked wheels

need more torque values ,,here's alink to eveerything ya need to know about your R1200GS

http://www.r1200gs.info/misc/torque.html


w

[kerryblue]

Originally Posted by Wallowa

Beemer Bob,

First you have a GS not the Adventure and I did not know they came with spoked tubless BMW wheels..

My 2010GS came with spoked tubless BMW wheels as an option.

[MattW]

I have a big problem with cross spoke wheels.

The unanodised ones on my 1100 are a knuckle breaking b*tch to clean!

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by MattW

I have a big problem with cross spoke wheels.

The unanodised ones on my 1100 are a knuckle breaking b*tch to clean!

well that can be alleviated by either anodizing them clear or any other color
or powder-coating them to the color of your choice,,,either process is usually $100 or less ...

CAveat Emptor,,,these old rms will usually have little tiny pits and corrosion that has a tendency to be revealed when anodized an possibly when baked in the oven[out-gassing it's called....tiny little craters],,,,my experience finds that satin black does the best job of not making these blems more noticeable in either configuration

in your case upgrading to a ss spoke and powder-coated nipple kit would be
a wise investment,,,,the old chrome version of your spoke corrodes/rusts and the heads of the spokes have a tendency to crack off

the job can run circa $300-500 depending on what gets done [an $800-600 saving]


w

[MattW]

Originally Posted by woody's wheel works

well that can be alleviated by either anodizing them clear or any other color
or powder-coating them to the color of your choice,,,either process is usually $100 or less ...

CAveat Emptor,,,these old rms will usually have little tiny pits and corrosion that has a tendency to be revealed when anodized an possibly when baked in the oven[out-gassing it's called....tiny little craters],,,,my experience finds that satin black does the best job of not making these blems more noticeable in either configuration

in your case upgrading to a ss spoke and powder-coated nipple kit would be
a wise investment,,,,the old chrome version of your spoke corrodes/rusts and the heads of the spokes have a tendency to crack off

the job can run circa $300-500 depending on what gets done [an $800-600 saving]


w

If only I was in the US Woody

[supershaft]

Hey Woody! I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if these questions have already been asked and answered. What is BMW's run out limits and what are yours? Now that I know that these wheels can be dealt with I am sure I am going to start checking run out and I bet it won't take too long to find some that need warrantied.

Do the grub screws strip on ya very often? Do you soak them real good first? What happens if one does strip?

[widowmaker2011]

Originally Posted by Wallowa

Beemer Bob,

First you have a GS not the Adventure and I did not know they came with spoked tubless BMW wheels..

.......

Yes the GS does come with spoked tubeless straight pull wheels just as the Adventure does. Every GS I have seen in the last 2 years has spoked wheels , I don't know if my dealer is unique in ordering them that way or if the cast wheels are not used anymore. All I know is mine has spokes.

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by supershaft

Hey Woody! I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if these questions have already been asked and answered. What is BMW's run out limits and what are yours? Now that I know that these wheels can be dealt with I am sure I am going to start checking run out and I bet it won't take too long to find some that need warrantied.

Do the grub screws strip on ya very often? Do you soak them real good first? What happens if one does strip?

we have certain tricks to NOT mess-up your grub screws,,they are tiny little things with just a 2mm socket,,not much purchase power....so i'll give you all one of my hard won secrets,, :>)

actually it's all just common sense in hindsight...

1,,start by blowing out the head of grub screw with compressed air and use dental pick to assist in removing dirt...not doing so will invariably not allow the 2mm allen to have full purchase,,and then you've added to your problems

2,, a squirt of WD-40 or similar penetrant to lube the threads

3,,here's the trick: with 5mm allen or T-40 Torx bit give each nipple a 1/8th turn ccw this relieves tension on the grub screw:>),,NOW ya can take a good 2mm allen [ ie one that doesn't have its edges worn round ] and remove it without stripping it,,,,i can't tell ya how many wheels come in with buggered up grub screws from the''do it your-self crowd''...

4,, re-installing em requires patience and accurate alignment or you'll cross thread em in a heart beat 1nm/1ft-lb torque

FYI nipple and grub screw are about $2.50 if ya mess up

here are two links pertaining to all your question

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69728

and my first post on advrider

''demystifying the bunk re: straightening /truing/rebuilding GS wheels''

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...debunking+myth

plenty straight data to chew on

and Pulleeeze pass the word that it is Do-ABLE....help save yourself and your fellow rider anymore unneccesary and unwarented grief..

yes it is possible on a daily basis to true/straighten your wheels up to less than a third or a sixth of BMW's .060''/1.5mm run-out ,,,and our run-out specs are +/- a given number ie the wheel does not wander more than +/- a certain spec usually .005-010'' these days

w

[supershaft]

Thanks Woody!!

[wavygravy]

Woody,

I have some un even rear tire wear on my 05 GS. Last time I changed the tires I put the bare rear rim on my balancer and noticed a "hop". I don't have a measurement for you. The tire has a flat spot in it and is due for another set. Do you think it should be trued up? No vibration to speak of. Can post pictures if needed
Thanks,
Joe

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by wavygravy

Woody,

I have some un even rear tire wear on my 05 GS. Last time I changed the tires I put the bare rear rim on my balancer and noticed a "hop". I don't have a measurement for you. The tire has a flat spot in it and is due for another set. Do you think it should be trued up? No vibration to speak of. Can post pictures if needed
Thanks,
Joe

all those problems can be rectified...with re-truing the wheel and if necessary filling in and machining the flat spots to give you a truer,,,longer lasting true with concentricity/runouts nearing +/- .010'' in any direction...

result....a wheel that won't cause your tires to wear out as rapidly,,,a smoother ride,,,peace of mind for less than $250

woody