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Old 07-29-2010, 06:21 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger
Seems like an awful lot of time, money and work when all you really needed was different springs and oil viscosity.
really? $400-$500 isn't much. A few hours work. To get a real cartrige fork set up correctly and adjustible compression & rebound. Seems inexpensive & easy to me.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by -W-
There is already that kind of topout spring inside of the dampening cardridges of RXV and other Shiver forks. So if you use second topout spring for reducing the travel that spring should be really stiff so that it won't anymore 'bend'.

Normally all the travel reducements for enduro bike forks (when they use same forks for supermoto and iceracing) are done by using solid spacers - at least in this part of world;) What is good in solid spacer is that you can lock it to it's place with locknut and therefore it stays (no matter what) at the bottom of the damper rod. If you don't lock it (or you spring instead of it) it may move up and down during suspension travel and leave marks to damper rod and then the upper cardridge seal doesn't seal that well if there is marks/grooves at the rod surface.

Again I'm not sure if this will hapen in reality or not, but I didn't wan't to take any changes what comes to reliability. After all it is an adventure bike (at least that is my goal with this bike;) and therefore reliability of every mod which I do for my bike has to be at top level. That is one of the reasons why I didn't want to go for gas pressurised gardridges like Bitubo etc..


And I'm glad if I can help you guys with this mod since I have got so many good advices and inspirations from this site that I am only happy if I can 'pay some of that' back by sharing this fork mod.
Yes, he mentioned that mine did not have the top out spring after taking them apart. He ordred one and also two different solid spacers. He is doing the rest of the work and adjustments once those parts come in.

He mentioned that often the springs are tapered so they will stay in place. Once the parts come in he is going to come up with the best soluion for these forks.

I'm getting him the stock measurements today:
stock length 890 mm from top cap to axle (on the bike, on side stand)
stock fully extended - 913
stock fully compressed - 683
stock travel - 230 (913-683)
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:54 AM   #33
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Okay, your Shivers are then a bit different than mine RXV and Factory ones.. And if you really didn't have that small spring inside of the damping cardridge (sounds a bit strange..), then it is absolutely best way of putting that spring there for off road use.

Interesting to see little bit different solution than mine is! Nice work!
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:47 AM   #34
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Yes, he found it odd too that there was no top out spring. It could have been removed by previous owner when he installled the stiffer .5 springs. Also he mentioned that the RXV springs are 1/4" or 6mm longer than the stock springs. Not sure if he's planning to cut them down or adjust the preload spacer.

He's considering best way to do it. I'll report back with a description. Not sure I'll be able to get pics. It is a private shop after all.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:14 AM   #35
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I wouldn't mind seeing some pictures "inside of private shop"...

He does the spring fitment by adjusting the spacers. And it really doesn't matter that if the springs you have are 6mm or 10mm or what ever longer / shorter since the original springs are also "wrong" lenght to this setup anyway (spring plate is in different height and you really don't want to put so much preload to stiffer springs as the standart spring are having).
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:39 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktiger
Seems like an awful lot of time, money and work when all you really needed was different springs and oil viscosity.


Welcome to the Parallel Twins section. Here the forks feature no rebound, no compression and no preload. Oh, and did I mention the lack of a cartridge which could be re-valved if it were present in the first place?
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:29 PM   #37
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Just listed my stock fork cartriges for sale in the flea market....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...0#post13600770

$250 + shipping.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:45 AM   #38
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I should get them back from the fork Dr. Today. Can't wait to get them on the bike & try them out!!
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:05 PM   #39
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I got my forks back today.

Ed McCoy set them up as follows:
Overall length measures 35.75" = 908mm so guessing 913mm (same as stock)
Travel 230mm
40 mm spacer used to get them back to stock. Instead of a solid space he used a spring + a 10mm(+ or -) solid spacer to make it the right length.
14mm of preload
.50 spring which was a 1/4" longer than stock (compensated for via the preload spacer)
10 wt oil
100mm of air-oil space (100 mm from top)

Set both adjusters at 12 clicks out from full hard
Compression on bottom
Rebound on top

Put them on tonight. Took it for a little quick ride around the block. They felt pretty good. Definitely different and better. High speed compression is way better - No more jolts from square edge hits and it felt like less dive on braking.

I'll report back with more info tomorrow after I rdie it a bit.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:39 AM   #40
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We must then have a bit different kind of valving (and maybe ports at valves also) since I have harder springs than you are having, but my fork is revalved and tuned to be best at 5wt Motorex oils when riding pure off road.

My tuner said that I could try a bit stiffer oils if I'll do more dirt/gravel road type of riding or prefer a bit more damping and therefore I have now 6.25wt Motorex oils in those (because I just did 9tkm long summer trip with lots of good roads also). For winter I will go 5wt or even lighter oils (=temperatures below -0c).

That 6.25wt blend of Motorex seems to have quite close same viscosity than original Marzocchi 7.5wt oil and much stiffer doesn't work that well with these forks according to him. But different brand oils have hugely different kind of viscosities and therefore some 7.5wt and some 10wt could have same viscosity in real life:

http://www.pvdwiki.com/images/a/a7/P...osity-Data.gif

Just to remind when playing with different oil viscosities and brands..

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Old 08-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -W-

We must then have a bit different kind of valving (and maybe ports at valves also) since I have harder springs than you are having, but my fork is revalved and tuned to be best at 5wt Motorex oils when riding pure off road.
Yes, he was aware the springs are on the softer side. I think the valving and oil choice was to "stiffen" it up a bit from the stock RXV fork. I am not sure what brand of oil. I'll have to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -W-
:
My tuner said that I could try a bit stiffer oils if I'll do more dirt/gravel road type of riding or prefer a bit more damping and therefore I have now 6.25wt Motorex oils in those (because I just did 9tkm long summer trip with lots of good roads also). For winter I will go 5wt or even lighter oils (=temperatures below -0c).

That 6.25wt blend of Motorex seems to have quite close same viscosity than original Marzocchi 7.5wt oil and much stiffer doesn't work that well with these forks according to him. But different brand oils have hugely different kind of viscosities and therefore some 7.5wt and some 10wt could have same viscosity in real life:

http://www.pvdwiki.com/images/a/a7/P...osity-Data.gif

Just to remind when playing with different oil viscosities and brands..
[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I will have to find out what brand of oil he used. I thought all 10wt was standardized. Guess not.

Initial impression after riding to work and around town at lunch is that it is MUCH MUCH better than the stock cartrige. So far I noticed that it does not deflect on every man hole cover or pot holes. It rides right over them. Much smoother all around. No jolts. There is FAR less dive on braking and it tracks in the corners so much better it is incredible.

I do notice now that on braking instead of the front diving the rear seems to rise up. I felt it before with stock fork cartiges but it dove in front and rose in the rear. Now the rear feels like it needs to be adjusted. LOL knew that would be hapening. Probably play with the dampenig screw on the rear. I have it at stock settings so a click of dampening + adding a bit of preload to the rear may do it.

Alreday it is a huge improvement - the high speed dampening may be a bit stiff still as he set it up. May be the 10wt oil. I am not 100% sure on that and need to ride it a lot more before I decide if any adjustments are needed to the fork valving. Since the compression and rebound are adjustable now I can play with it in the range it has and see how it changes the ride/feel.

I expect I may bring it back for a valve or oil adjustment at some point. Currently it is a vast improvement over stock. Well worth the $375 spent so far.

ALSO - I think the use of the spring for the spacer (travel reducing spacer) is a great way to go. If he takes them apart again I will get pictures to post.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:40 AM   #42
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Nice to hear that you are happy with the result!

And of course it takes time (and testing) to set the rebound and compression as you prefer, but that is part of the fun and now you can actually do those things!

And what comes to front end diving / back end rising - you can't completely get rid of it because the fact is that proper street bike has half the travel of this bike and twice stiffer springs. These bikes are always compromise as their name says - dualsports. But I have still similar kind of fealings about the back end like you are having.


But damn your conversion has been dirt cheap..! I spend over three times more all together (probably two times more if you don't count my bad luck with the first set of Shiver Factory forks)... But I quess first time is the most expensive (and I used only new parts).

Then again have to reming (like you said your self), that this is just part of the bill since now you have to update the rear shock too! And that really wasn't your plan at the begining, was it..
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:35 AM   #43
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Plan?...

I started with a set of KYB forks from a YZ250F. Planned to do this same conversion. It would work just the same provided the top caps fit or could be machined to fit.

Then I read an article about Phil at Aftershocks and the adjustment he can do. Figured I'd try that route first to see if it worked. Got to his shop, forks in hand just to find out he moved out of TriValley Moto the night before I got there.

So... Then I see the thread on fork conversions & your effort to make the RXV Shiver'd forks work. I already knew about the AF1 Aprilia forum and went looking. Posted up that I was looking for a set of used Aprilia RXV forks. Got two replies. Started calling around & asking about revalve work & found a third set at Superplush Suspension in SF. Decided to have the work done by McCoy's Off Road Center because they are local. Superplush would have been my next choice for sure.

I'm really happy with the results. Now my forks are tunable and re-valveable if needed! For what it's worth my conversion would have been +$200 - $250 more but I worked out a trade for some of the work. Makes sense that mine would be 1/2 as much as yours if I went the used route vs your knew ones.

I sure would like to know the difference and ride both our bikes side by side. Not possible unless one of us take a round the world ride. Anyway, I can't wait to get the bike off road. It feels so much better just around town. Going to be fun in the dirt. :')

Oh, and speaking of plans, yes, I've always planned to get a hyperpro rear. Just wanted to improve the front first. The hyperpro is on the list for winter downtime project. All in due time. A set of risers are next.

Anyone want to buy my stock fork cartriges? They are for sale now in the flea market...
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:27 PM   #44
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Still waiting on my RXVs. They should be here on Wednesday. The good part is that they are re-valved and ready to go once they show up.

I'm with -W-, my conversion has been much more expensive than yours even if I don't factor in the first pair of Shivers that won't work (easily anyway). I paid $250 for the RXV forks, $250 for SuperPlush to revalve, $180 for HyperPro springs and $105 for machining the feet. Add some money for shipping and new seals and I'm getting close $900. If everything works out well then it's all worth it, if it sucks then an off the shelf solution may have been better. We shall see!

Hey Gangplank or -W-, any luck finding a longer travel rear shock? I emailed ELKA and they said no way. HyperPro and Ohlins are options for custom travel units. Have you checked into either?
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:02 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNP77
Hey Gangplank or -W-, any luck finding a longer travel rear shock? I emailed ELKA and they said no way. HyperPro and Ohlins are options for custom travel units. Have you checked into either?
At least WP or Ohlins can be both modified to have longer travel. No broblem for professional suspension tuners. Mine is going to be modified at the same time when the shock is opened for revalving to fit to my riding style (and match the front fork).

Unfortunately I am not in a hurry with this conversion since I smashed my shoulder, collarbone, ribs and some other parts while doing some downhill racing and I won't be riding anything for a while..
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