ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Vendors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2012, 08:02 AM   #2716
max384
Disgruntled Student
 
max384's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Sugar Notch, PA
Oddometer: 3,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh
Great to hear you are happy with the lights.

How about a pic of your install?
I mounted them on the fork reflector extension bolt (with gobs of loctite). It was a very easy install with no modifications required (except to mount the switch). My pictures suck, but here they are:





__________________
'09 Suzuki SV650, '02 KLR250, CRF70 and 80 for the kids IBA # 56419

Newfoundland 2012

James Bay 2014
max384 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 11:22 AM   #2717
sanjoh OP
Purveyor of Light
 
sanjoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Mountains of Central Florida:)
Oddometer: 5,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by max384 View Post
I mounted them on the fork reflector extension bolt (with gobs of loctite). It was a very easy install with no modifications required (except to mount the switch).
Looks great!
sanjoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #2718
RENCRN8
Gnarly Adventurer
 
RENCRN8's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Loveland, OH
Oddometer: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVikingRider View Post
Just mounted a model 30 and 60 to the 640. they are very bright .

I think they'll work monted here, they seem pretty secure

though the 640 has a tendency to shake shit loose.





Just ordered this exact setup for my 640ADV! Super excited since the stock lights suck bad!
RENCRN8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:09 PM   #2719
NormanH
n00b
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 4
Eek My adventure with advmonster lights

Let me preface this by saying these lamps ROCK, I'm well satisfied with my purchase, and sanjoh has swapped dozens of mails with me in the name of customer service. Fast shipping, reasonable value - will do business again.

However, the install wasn't exactly plug and play.

TL;DR: If you have electrical problems, add a 1000uF bypass cap where you tie these lamps into your electrical system, and/or connect it directly to the battery (with a relay, of course).

After reading http://f650.com/forum/showthread.php...Light-Teardown, I did a teardown of the lamps when I first got them, to install the HD brackets and investigate the heat transfer compound situation. Substantially the same, although I didn't look extremely closely at the LED stars (the LEDs look like the CREE chip they are supposed to be), but it has the thermal protection switch and a little light on the paste.

Couple bucks for some grease later (I think a really good investment - both inside on the LED board retaining ring, and where the rear heatsink screws on) and I was ready to put them on the bike.

It's evident that these lamps are built from components originally for another purpose. But they're not a low quality lamp by any means. They're actually _more_ compact than they look in most photos, sturdy without being heavy. The brackets don't look nearly as flimsy, either. I looked at some of the Clearwater Glenda lamps on another guy's bike on the ferry, and although their fit and finish is good/better, these have a _lot_ better (IMHO, not measured) ability to sink heat because of the longer lamp (about 2" longer, maybe?) and finned heat sink on the back.

I bought a pair of the model 60 lamps for fender mounts on my FJR1300.

I went with the rotary dimmer and the HD brackets. The rotary dimmer has some tiny wires on it - maybe 20GA, 22GA. I'm not sure it's not under-wired for a pair of the model 60s, that's nearly 5 amps. It won't surprise me if I have to replace the dimmer at some point.

The HD brackets are a worthwhile $10 - the stock bracket has thin, phillips head screws to fasten it, sanjoh includes a much more sensible (and heavier) allen head screw and nylock nut with the HD bracket, saving a trip to the hardware store. The 19mm spacer that sits inside the bracket, however, needs to be ground down to about 18mm for the HD bracket due to the thicker metal - a replacement isn't included, and you can't tighten them down without it.

I reversed the mounts, as several have - Bolts up fine with the FJR fender screws, but if you reverse them you'll save yourself some cursing aiming them if you just cut down an allen wrench in the first place - there's not much clearance to the lamp once reversed, and (as intended) you can't swing them out as much once reversed.

Physical install completed, I ran my wires - although I intended to run it as an on/off switch, and tie into the high beams for full-bright override, I ended up just running the lamps from a relay-switched fusebox whenever the keys are on, and a handlebar switch to toggle the brights. Alas, the FJR has no real bar space, and I hate to drill into a fairing. So finding a switch was a little difficult. These are _awesome_: http://www.pashnit.com/product/pmr/bar_switches.html and what I went with, but the FJR _also_ has a darn offset to the clutch mount screws, so it had to go on the brake side.

Then the moment of truth!

Truth, I say to you: THESE ARE SO BLOODY GREAT! On bright, a pair of these will completely swamp the low beam of the FJR (which really has some pretty fine stock lights), and adds a _lot_ to the high beam, especially out to the mid-distance sides where I really wanted more light in the middle of nowhere, as well as brightening up the center.

Plus, the next FF who doesn't dip their brights in the middle of Utah at night is going to need a service animal for the rest of their life.

Even dimmed down to where you can look at them (virtually the bottom of the dial), they add a fair amount of contrast/brightness to street signs at night.

---

Ok, so here's the issue, presented so _hopefully_ some others can benefit from my fussing:

After installing the lights, my GPS (Garmin 2730) would just absolutely fall over in a heap whenever the lights were on. _Apparently_ no power on when you turned on the switch. Some playing with it showed that if I turned the lights on _after_ the GPS, and left them all the way dim, it would work OK. then as I turned them up the GPS would go to a blank screen.

Some further research revealed a diagnostic mode, and the oddest darn thing - the GPS has a voltmeter in it, and as I turned the lights from off to full, the VDC went from ~12.9V (bike off, just on battery) to 17+VDC right before it died. Sanjoh theorized that it has an overvoltage protection feature, and that looks like what's happening - it sees a high voltage, and shuts itself off.

A cheap digital voltmeter shows exactly the same behavior. That's sorta surprising on a battery, y'know?

Although I tried it, a liberal application of clamp-on ferrite beads had no meaningful effect.

Thankfully, I happen to have an analog oscilloscope. It shows something surprising: The Garmin voltmeter isn't completely full of it. The scope showed 2 things (measured at the fusebox):

( 1 ) Spikes at 100kHz of around +21VDC at peak, +9VDC at trough. This is continuous at full intensity, so presumably the switching rate of the driver.
( 2 ) Dimmer was operating at 1kHz, and not adding any additional noise.

In retrospect, it stands to reason. Switching a 5A load isn't trivial. But these drivers are _noisy_ electrically.

After consultation with a number of kind folks in my riding group, some of whom are EEs, I added some bypass capacitors.

Things I didn't do which were suggested by very smart people(tm):

( 1 ) Wire the lamps directly to the battery. This would, I'm sure, help a lot. However, I already have 2 extra terminals on the battery (aux fusebox and battery tender lead), the FJR battery is awkwardly placed for adding more (in the fairing), and it's easy to do things at the fusebox.
( 2 ) Run the wires to the fusebox and from the fusebox to the lamps as twisted pairs. I'll probably still do this eventually.
( 3 ) Get the bypass caps as close to the load (lamps) as possible. Unfortunately, if you put the capacitors _inside_ the lamp housing, you have physical space constraints, extra heat, and you are (as told to me in a way which makes sense) extremely limited in how much you can dim the lamps by PWM, because the voltage drops. The next chance to add a bypass cap is ~1 meter later, at the dimmer.

Things I did do:

( 1 ) Add a bypass capacitor at the fusebox

I started with a 10uF electrolytic cap and a 0.01uF ceramic, and that _immediately_ stopped the GPS from falling over. The spikes were down to +/- 2VDC, and the GPS voltmeter basically didn't notice.

ASCII wiring diagram:

+ -------------------------- Dimmer +
|
C +
A
P -
|
- -------------------------- Dimmer -

(It looks like you're just adding a short if, like me, you have only minimal electronics skills, but you're not. The capacitor is (very roughly) an open circuit to DC, and a short for AC/spikes)

I switched that out for (only) a 1000uF 35v electrolytic capacitor (Radio Shack actually still stocks these) and it's regulated to ~ +/- 0.5VDC

That really should be IMHO adequate for anything which expects to live in an automotive electrical enviroment (alternators aren't exactly electrically quiet). But it's still quite a bit of noise. Tonight, I tried adding a 2200uF capacitor at the same place, then also added the 1000uF I'd had on it. No significant difference between that and just the 1000uF cap.

As of tonight, I think it's dealt with as well as I'm going to, and I'm going to quit playing with it and just ride it. I can see this noise being a (big) problem in a couple of situations:

( a ) My problem, Garmin GPS falling over
( b ) Radio/CB noise, this isn't VHF, but it's around the same problem as alternator noise
( c ) Possibly the source of CanBus problems

In conclusion, I'd buy these lamps again, and they're really awesome, but be aware that they're (potentially) a lot more difficult to integrate to your bike than an incandescent.
NormanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 07:04 AM   #2720
sanjoh OP
Purveyor of Light
 
sanjoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Mountains of Central Florida:)
Oddometer: 5,202
Thanks for the review NormanH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
It's evident that these lamps are built from components originally for another purpose.
Incorrect, the components are designed and built as an led light. The components used would not be functional in anything besides an led light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
The rotary dimmer has some tiny wires on it - maybe 20GA, 22GA. I'm not sure it's not under-wired for a pair of the model 60s, that's nearly 5 amps. It won't surprise me if I have to replace the dimmer at some point.
The wire sizing is more than adequate for the expected loads. If you have any issues with the dimmer, let me know, it is covered by our warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
The 19mm spacer that sits inside the bracket, however, needs to be ground down to about 18mm for the HD bracket due to the thicker metal - a replacement isn't included, and you can't tighten them down without it.
No grinding required. A simple tweak of the ears/pivot with some pliers and the spacer fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
I reversed the mounts, as several have - Bolts up fine with the FJR fender screws, but if you reverse them you'll save yourself some cursing aiming them if you just cut down an allen wrench in the first place - there's not much clearance to the lamp once reversed, and (as intended) you can't swing them out as much once reversed.
An easier approach is to remove the light from the bracket during installation, easy access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
After installing the lights, my GPS (Garmin 2730) would just absolutely fall over in a heap whenever the lights were on. _Apparently_ no power on when you turned on the switch. Some playing with it showed that if I turned the lights on _after_ the GPS, and left them all the way dim, it would work OK. then as I turned them up the GPS would go to a blank screen.

Some further research revealed a diagnostic mode, and the oddest darn thing - the GPS has a voltmeter in it, and as I turned the lights from off to full, the VDC went from ~12.9V (bike off, just on battery) to 17+VDC right before it died. Sanjoh theorized that it has an overvoltage protection feature, and that looks like what's happening - it sees a high voltage, and shuts itself off.
Seems the GPS is a bit more sensitve to voltage than a GPS with an internal battery. I take it Garmin built in some interesting circuits to insure the the DC power is within spec to protect the unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
Possibly the source of CanBus problems
I Always recomend direct battery connection. Avoid the canbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanH View Post
In conclusion, I'd buy these lamps again, and they're really awesome, but be aware that they're (potentially) a lot more difficult to integrate to your bike than an incandescent.
Cool, mind if I borrow your oscope since you aren't using it now
sanjoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 07:37 AM   #2721
SteelB12
Beastly Adventurer
 
SteelB12's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Prince William County, VA
Oddometer: 2,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Dog View Post
Is there a wiring diagram in this thread for without a dimmer?
Did anyone post one up?? I can't seem to find one in the 28 pages. Or is the one at the top of this page OK??
__________________
2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
2009 KLR650

SteelB12 screwed with this post 09-12-2012 at 07:38 AM Reason: I'm dumb
SteelB12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 09:52 AM   #2722
NormanH
n00b
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
Incorrect, the components are designed and built as an led light. The components used would not be functional in anything besides an led light.
I meant they weren't initially designed as an automotive lamp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
No grinding required. A simple tweak of the ears/pivot with some pliers and the spacer fits.
Not in my experience. I tried that, and the ears are out of parallel/don't fit inside the bracket before the spacer fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
An easier approach is to remove the light from the bracket during installation, easy access.
About the third time I did that, I ground down an allen wrench :) Removing them is fine for installation, but a pain for aiming.
NormanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 03:13 PM   #2723
sanjoh OP
Purveyor of Light
 
sanjoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Mountains of Central Florida:)
Oddometer: 5,202
Now what about the oscope
sanjoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 06:50 PM   #2724
ManiZ
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ManiZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado; 6,400ft.
Oddometer: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by max384 View Post

Any pics of the 30s taken in bright daylight from a far distance, aimed a few degrees away from the camera? It would be the view of an oncoming driver, basically.

I am torn between 30s and 44s. 30s produce only 500 fewer lumens but require less than half the wattage of the 44s. But 44s have a wide beam, so I want to see whether the 30s are easily visible to an oncoming driver (the main reason I want aux lights). With heated clothing I already use, I want to keep the electrical load as low as possible.
ManiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 03:05 AM   #2725
sanjoh OP
Purveyor of Light
 
sanjoh's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Mountains of Central Florida:)
Oddometer: 5,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiZ View Post
Any pics of the 30s taken in bright daylight from a far distance, aimed a few degrees away from the camera? It would be the view of an oncoming driver, basically.
Not much difference between the lights during the day. You can see them from over 1/2 mile away. I noticed this the first time I swapped bikes with another rider!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiZ View Post
I am torn between 30s and 44s. 30s produce only 500 fewer lumens but require less than half the wattage of the 44s. But 44s have a wide beam, so I want to see whether the 30s are easily visible to an oncoming driver (the main reason I want aux lights). With heated clothing I already use, I want to keep the electrical load as low as possible.
Another option to keep the load down is an LED controller. Using a high beam bypass model lets you set a dimmed setting that only uses a few watts, usually less than 5 with model 60s. When you need full output, hit your high beam and the lights go to full power, turn high beam off and they return to the dimmed setting.

For a limited time, at no extra cost, we are including a plug n play wiring setup when a high beam bypass dimmer is purchased with lights.
sanjoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:18 AM   #2726
Ned Kelly
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Oddometer: 27
Any plans to offer an 3600 lumen M60 light with a spot beam pattern, for those who want something brighter than the current 1500 lumen M30 spot?
Ned Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:29 AM   #2727
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Kelly View Post
Any plans to offer an 3600 lumen M60 light with a spot beam pattern, for those who want something brighter than the current 1500 lumen M30 spot?

I second that ... That would be nice . The spot at the moment seems way too focused to use only one as a high beam. I am using two at the moment
640 Armageddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:41 AM   #2728
michigan400
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Oddometer: 102
Whats up guys!? My 1st post on here but I'm very active on Thumpertalk and KTMtalk as well so figured why not join in here for some adventure goodness. I'm 99% off road riding but as long as I'm on a bike, I'm having fun and not complaining.

Just ordered 1 model 30 spot on Friday, should be here any day!! I've read this thread off and on for about a month now trying to decide if I take a chance with one or go with something from B.D. or Rigid. From what I've seen, I don't think there is a better lumen per dollar led option out there. If I get even remotely close to the difference shown below by alleycatdad, I will be a VERY HAPPY night rider. My KTM 450 EXC has the stock rectangular H4 set up but I've added a Trail Tech 100W stator and a good quality +30 H4 bulb. I'm hoping the spot will give me just a touch more distance and the stray light will give me as much fill as a 35W MR16 that I use now with it for an add on. I know these pics show a model 30 and a 44 but I'll try the 30 1st and if it's not enough I'll simply order up another 30 or 44( or 60) to add on or just swap out. Anyway,, I'll post up some pics (and helmet cam to if it's worth looking at ) once I get it put on and take a night ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleycatdad View Post
KTM 990, 2010.

Blackdog Cycle Works mount, needed a little work to fit: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=19



Stock low beam:



Stock High Beam (underexposed somewhat by point n shoot camera-it's not quite THIS bad...) :




Plus model 24 flood and model 30 spots:




THAT'LL do!

Beam patterns.

Note: Shot with point n shoot, brightness is not relative image to image. Distance: ~80 feet.

Stock High beam only:



Stock High Beam plus Model 30 spot:




Stock High beam, model 24 flood, and model 30 spot combined:



The right way to do this would be to go out with a manual camera on a tripod and use consistent settings image-to-image, but I had the point n shoot and a wall....

Steve
michigan400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 12:25 PM   #2729
max384
Disgruntled Student
 
max384's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Sugar Notch, PA
Oddometer: 3,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiZ View Post
Any pics of the 30s taken in bright daylight from a far distance, aimed a few degrees away from the camera? It would be the view of an oncoming driver, basically.
Sorry, I didn't notice this post earlier. I took a few pictures, but none of them really do the lights justice. I kept looking at the picture and thinking this isn't what I'm actually seeing. It may just be a case of shitty iphone pics. I'll try getting a pic with a real camera later.

I was actually just out on a group ride with ten other bikes yesterday. I kept getting compliments all day on the lights. I was taking up the rear of the ride and the group leader said he liked me having the lights on because he could glance back in his mirror and know the entire group was together because he could easily spot my lights. We weren't all bunched up either.
__________________
'09 Suzuki SV650, '02 KLR250, CRF70 and 80 for the kids IBA # 56419

Newfoundland 2012

James Bay 2014
max384 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 08:07 AM   #2730
michigan400
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Oddometer: 102
Model 30 plus Trail Tech X2 halogen

Got my M30 in quick! Thanks guys. Not a bad little light but I think I'll add either another 30 for a pair or just get a 60 to run as a single unit. The model is bright but not bright enough, IMO, to run as a stand alone headlight. Decent distance just to narrow and to blue colored to be good by it's lonesome. BUT,, for only 60 clams it's a hell of a light!

Also, since I can't leave well enough alone I did some experimenting last night. I first mounted it to my hand guard for a quick test. I had my Trail Tech X2 halogen mounted up for my main light. The X2 is OK in stock form but gets a lot better when you switch out the bulbs for something with a little more juice. I put a 55W H3 Narva rangepower +50 in the main light and a 50W MR16 spot for the top light (both are 35W as it comes from TT ). Problem with this is the 105W total draw. I only have a 100W stator so running high beam (both lights) is a no-no. I have it set up to run the 2" MR16 as the low beam and the 55W 4" light as the high beam and the Model 30 has it's own switch so I can add it to either.



Went for a quick ride like that ^ and it worked well. Much better than a 50W MR16. Has a pretty tight spot pattern and definitely more distance. Adding it to the 55W high beam gave me not quite as much spill light as the MR16 but helped the distance on the 4" as well. They are about even for distance but obviously the 4" driving light has way more fill from the broader beam.

Then I got to looking at the X2 and thought it would be awesome if I could just replace the crappy 2" light with the model 30 for a cleaner set up.

Looks doable to me.





So after further examination, I got the grinder out and made a few adjustments to the plastic body of the X2 and it slipped right in like it was made to go there. The Model 30 is held in place by the finned heat sink. I'll need to address the air flow issues and possibly get some metal between the 2 pcs so it's not mounted to plastic and maybe figure out a way to adjust it but I think this has real potential for an off road light. A model 60 in there would be awesome. Here is what it looks like mounted up. I'll work on getting some comparison pics posted this weekend.





michigan400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015