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Old 12-04-2004, 10:58 AM   #1
Dr.ABS Brake OP
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I-ABS III Anti-Lock Brake Failure during Ride (Investigating)

hello folks,

I do have about 25.000 miles experience in riding a BMW R1150GS Adventure with I-ABS III anti-lock brakes since august 2003 on nearly every terrain and speed in europe.

I recently noticed, that we do have large discussions on BMW related motorcycle internetboards in germany about brake failure of the famous I-ABS III anti-lock brakes during riding bmw motorcycles. there are also surveys of rider's opinions and experience in this matter available on nearly every board.

Well, some guys and me are in connection with the Kraftfahrtbundesamt (KBA) in Flensburg/Germany and a major automobile club for Germany and Austria (ADAC). We also tried to find a solution (cause a recall) by the manufacturer. It did not work. The complete correspondence is here. The spirit of the letters seems to be, that there are no problems with the braking systems I-ABS III at all. I think, my friends and me, we shoud be very happy and grateful to know that by now for sure.

Well, really everybody knows what happens, when brake failure (booster kaputt) happens:

you just have residual braking power. that's fine! and everything is okay, because you have seen the warnings lights, right? however, what if that failure comes at a not appropriate time? what if you don't recognize the warning light? in some cases i was examining, people did not recognize any warning light at all! but in any category of system malfunction - you have to learn to operate with an very unfamiliar feeling brake, and you better learn very fast.

Did you try that once? Did you?

I did! i "learnd" to operate with residual breaking power riding fast on a german highway when i reached a truck, aktivating brakes at nearly 100 mph. well, indeed the warning light showed me the system malfunction just in the second, when i touched the brake lever. was it a help for me? no, it was not. i was really scared to death. BMW mobile service called
the breakdown van and they picked it up.

Well, i did some investigation of my own, since noboby really is interrested in evaluating the risk of brake failure on a BMWI-ABS III antilock-brake bike. There is a reason why nobody wants to know about that risk. And i found a lot of information about brake failure on the internet.

my question is: why is obviously nobody taking this matter into NTHSA?


file a complaint


Why are the people complaining, but nothing happens outside germany at all? They just complain at the boards, but who cares really? I mean – really!

"My servo failed many times and most of them I could't note the ABS lights blinking." Gildo G

"280 miles from last failure/ABS module replacement similar circumstance same failure, no rear brake, "Light switch" front, Servos screaming all the time, Dealer brought the trailer" UtahDirt

Now - look what i found here:

„sure there have been a few problems with the 1200GS, including final drive failures (mine included)”

“The ABS went out on my dealers demo 12GS and it took them almost a month to get it fixed.”

“They apparently experienced some sort of complete break failure that freaked them so much they lose trust in the GS.”

“A friends 12GS had intermittent ABS and Servo failure (hardly worked) about a week ago in the middle of Oz. Had to take it all the way to Adelaide to get fixed.”

“I have had several occasions where I apply the brakes and I find for a split second they're not there. It's weird, it's as if I almost feel like I am surging forward before slowing down”


There a a lot more cases to find on the internet (i.e. BMWMOA)

[*] "das Problem war dass ich eine Gefahrenbremsung auf dem technischen Niveau der 1. Hälfte des 20. Jahrhunderts hinlegen musste: Massiver Krafteinsatz + absolute Nichtdosierbarkeit i.V.m. ABS-Ausfall = Vorderradrutscher, ich hatte Glück dass es mich nicht hingelegt hat. Ich hatte Pech, dass der Ausfall wohl kurz vor der besagten Gefahrenbremsung erfolgte und ich die Lampe noch nicht bemerkt hatte..."

[*] "Sofern aber ohne Kenntnis des Nichtfunktionierens und im Vertrauen auf das Funktionieren des BKV eine Gefahrenbremsung durchgeführt wird, bei der das ABS nicht zur Verfügung steht und eine Restbremswirkung von 5 m/s erreicht wird, stellt dies aus meiner Sicht eine Gefahr da."

But i think you really get the picture, when you translate this story from Krieger in the 9th posting: "Problem dabei: kaum Bremswirkung, und die auf den Bremskraftverstärker abgestimmte Bremse ist ohne praktisch nicht dosierbar: entweder sie bremst nicht oder sie blockiert (wie bei mir)"

This is exact what happend to me: non-braking brakes, and blocking rear-brakes, and for sure hardly to feel braking at all. At the time of malfunction, i thought i lost all braking power at all!

But what i want to tell you is training braking with residual braking power. You never know when brake failure will happen to you. You just don't know. And that brake fake failure can happen to you, that's for sure
.


Dr.ABS Brake

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Old 12-04-2004, 01:09 PM   #2
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good dam thing we all speak & read German around here....
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Old 12-04-2004, 01:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
good dam thing we all speak & read German around here....
Translation internet sites are available on the internet. Dr. ABS Brake will even probably translate the letter if asked.

Dr. ABS Brake is doing more for us than any gawd damn bullshit "what are the best bags for my bike" thread could ever even come close to.

Cheers,
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
Translation internet sites are available on the internet. Dr. ABS Brake will even probably translate the letter if asked.

Dr. ABS Brake is doing more for us than any gawd damn bullshit "what are the best bags for my bike" thread could ever even come close to.

Cheers,
Carl
So Carl, What are the best bags for my bike?
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:15 PM   #5
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Let me just translate that for you. You may very well think there is a problem with the brakes, but our brakes know best. They will decide when and how to brake. 200 000 flies can't be wrong. Regards, BMW.
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Old 12-04-2004, 04:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli
Let me just translate that for you. You may very well think there is a problem with the brakes, but our brakes know best. They will decide when and how to brake. 200 000 flies can't be wrong. Regards, BMW.

In short, this is the message from BMW to you dumb-fuck customers, indeed.

Who needs electronisch batätigte Bremsen anyway?
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
So Carl, What are the best bags for my bike?
You own a GS and work in the IT world, you therefore shouldn't have that much trouble w/ the search feature of this site to find yourself an answer to your question. Enjoy.

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Old 12-04-2004, 05:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
You own a GS and work in the IT world, you therefore shouldn't have that much trouble w/ the search feature of this site to find yourself an answer to your question. Enjoy.

Carl
Search this Carl
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BigDave
Search this Carl
The weather too lame for riding today?

United States | Colorado | Denver
Sunrise: 7:04 am UV Index: 2, Low Sunset: 4:34 pm
Moonrise: 11:47 pm Phase: Last Quarter Moonset: 12:35 pm
Dec 4
Saturday night:
Clear to partly cloudy. Low near 25F. Winds SW at 10 to 15 mph.
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Carl
The weather too lame for riding today?

United States | Colorado | Denver
Sunrise: 7:04 am UV Index: 2, Low Sunset: 4:34 pm
Moonrise: 11:47 pm Phase: Last Quarter Moonset: 12:35 pm
Dec 4
Saturday night:
Clear to partly cloudy. Low near 25F. Winds SW at 10 to 15 mph.
eh, had to watch the kid & do some work. Tomorrow though I get ALL DAY on the GS.
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:27 PM   #11
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new ABS

2000 GS
32K miles
no linked brakes
no servos
"regular" ABS
BMW has made a major F-UP
I have had three GS's (two airheads and 1150 was my first oilhead)
I still don't understand the latest systems - do you really have no brakes if the ABS screws up ?
I watched "long (fruity way round) way round" and could not understand why they left that m'cycle behind ? If it had "NO" brakes then I guess it was justified ?
I may never buy another BMW bike if this is the case.
But what do I know....I just give them F-Loads of money....
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Old 12-04-2004, 05:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
eh, had to watch the kid & do some work. Tomorrow though I get ALL DAY on the GS.
I'm also hanging out w/ the youngster today and even did some long overdue yardwork since we've had some pelting rains lately. No complaints on that issue.

Its G/S or R69S for me tomorrow morning. The '02 GS ADV is dead in the shop w/ warranty work, and NO its not from braking problems.

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Old 12-04-2004, 06:23 PM   #13
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Thanks for the ABS information Dr.

And I hope to ask a favor of you. Since you are in Germany and are posting on a German forum, maybe you know this company logo. Or maybe you could ask on your forum.

I do not know the name of this company, and need to find out. This company makes many of the connectors for BMW.



I am thankful for any ideas from you, or anyone on your forum.

- Jim

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Old 12-05-2004, 02:19 AM   #14
Thomas
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The lengthening of braking distances due to ABS is not uncommon.
I also don't think that this is a "problem" but an ABS specific characteristic.

It's the thing that ABS is designed to do actually.. release the brakes.

It also occurs with cars.

You have to decide for yourself if you want these characteristics and adapt your riding style to it. Because in a lot of other critical situations the same ABS will save your ass.

Failure of electric/electronic gizmo-try is rediculous.

My 2cts
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:09 AM   #15
Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steverino
Well, I am just a dumbass user with 42,000 mile on a new GS Aventure in under 12 months. Brakes work great no problem and I can't read german and I don't have the desire to translate.

Here is my opinion, piss off.
Boy, don't you feel stupid?

It's a useful contribution, albeit in German.
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