ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-07-2007, 10:54 AM   #121
SteveBroskey
Teach me this knowledge
 
SteveBroskey's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashopolis
hope this helps
it does - I'll take the advice when working on her this weekend, Thanks Nash!


oh - and you said keep the throttle closed. So, don't roll on it when trying to start?
SteveBroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 12:44 AM   #122
nashopolis
Studly Adventurer
 
nashopolis's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Nashville, Tenn
Oddometer: 714
yep keep off the throttle when starting - word is the 650 floods easily

good luck
nashopolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 12:51 PM   #123
Kawidad
Beastly Adventurer
 
Kawidad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Central Coast, Cal
Oddometer: 4,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO
I've a couple of questions:

The front fork of my DR '94 is too soft, what can I do? preloading the springs? more oil? how much an what SAE?

..and rear is the same, what is the rigth rider SAG for this model?

Thanks
Probably new springs would be a better idea. Most all Japanese bikes come way too softly sprung. They spring them for a typical Japanese rider at about a buck thirty five.

I changed the oil in my 94 and didn't have the manual for that year, although I do have the manual for the 1991 and went with that figure (566 Ml at 10w). I didn't have any 10w fork oil laying about, so I just used ATF, which is about 7.5w and it worked okay.

Sag: well I'm not too sure I'd worry all that much. These bikes' suspension is extremely crude by modern standards, so rider sag seems to me is the least of your issues. But, having said that; I'd look around 90-100mm mark, which is a fairly standard figure.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Juvenal
(Who watches the watchers)
Kawidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 02:03 PM   #124
BikePilot
Beastly Adventurer
 
BikePilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Tampa
Oddometer: 11,175
The spring rate thing is true of all dual sports I think, but definately not true of japanese dirt bikes:)

Stock suspension, no botoming


Now my dual sports will botom over a candy wraper and still manage to be much more harsh over the little stuff than my MX bike.
__________________
'09 Buell XB12XT, TL1000S, H1F, M620, CR250R, KX100, XR650R, Cota 315R

Summer 2009 Ride Report http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...1509c&t=507038
Summer 2008 RR. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367703
BikePilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 03:01 PM   #125
mnormand
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Lafayette, La.
Oddometer: 358
More 1991 DR650S questions

Its been raining almost every afternoon since I brought this bike home a week ago, so this morning I was finally able to get out, ride almost 200 miles with 1/3 highway, 1/3 fast dirt/gravel roads, and 1/3 slow woods roads. It was an excellent shake down cruise and eye opener, I'm really starting to love the available highway power, still have to be careful and not get hurt doing something stupid.

Cold starting: whats your routine? Choke routine? After 20+ kicks at 6am this morning, I gotta find what it wants. I wasn't exactly sure about proper choke usage and then warmups once it did start.

Tank bags...I really need this, but does anyone have suggestion what would work good on this particular factory tank? Mangetic types? Anyone have pics of their setup? What about a small map case for the crossbar, saw that once somewhere on the forum, but never seen again.

Thanks!
mnormand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2007, 08:17 PM   #126
quint7
I don't need a title
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Finger Lakes (Rochester) NY
Oddometer: 459
Starting the bike.....

So..............
Steve, I'm the guy that had the bike on Craigslist. I did see your posts on here at the time..... no hurt feelings, but everything I said about the bike was and is still accurate. So much so that after getting lowballed over and over I kept the bike and all spares to use as a beater/ fire road bike. I have it all nice nice and am happy to list my mods/ tips. Glad you got a bike you could afford!
Starting:
As has been said MANY times: Turn fuel to ON. Pull the choke. Hit the kill switch. Hold the decomp lever in and kick it 4 or 5 times. Release the lever and slowly kick til it clicks out. Hit the kill switch back to run. DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Kick it HARD. Repeat the decomp/ kick series until it fires. Let it run on full choke until you KNOW it is warm.

Some other tips:
Keep that idle speed up. It needs to ilde at 1500 RPM or you will get stalling at stoplights, etc or ruin the clutch. There is a simple screw on the carb to up the speed. Looks like a rod with a wheel on it.

Choke cable swap: Jesse sells a DR350 choke on his site and I got one. I don't know if the 96-up are different but I didn't like how short it was, so after looking at the microfiche I saw that the 90-91 had a regular choke-on-carb set-up like Jesse sells. I bought that and love it. It has a MUCH longer rod on the plunger. I ditched the cable choke and am happy.

The Acrebis 6.6 tank is sweet! I had to wait 3 months t get it, but it is light and massive. Plus if it isn't full, the weight is a lot lower due to the big "wings" on the tank.

I put straight rate springs (from Jesse) in the front and I like them. No bottoming out, just not that plush first couple inches of travel. In the gravel it is better I think and beats the Progressive springs that were in the bike.

I don't have a battery in mine and all lights and horn work once the bike is running. Maybe this payday I'll get one.......

Plastics....... give up and buy OEM for side or tail. Fenders are fenders and same with light shrouds I think, Acerbis or whatever. There are actually some cool Buell dual light mods you cn look up. Supposed to be lighter and add a lot more useable light to the bike plus it looks wicked cool.

I am going to add flush mount rear signals so they don't snap off and might try to adapt the sme or something shorter to the front.

White Bros. makes a bashplate that is solid unlike the stock one that can clog with mud. It is expensive but well made.
http://www.whitebrothers.com/2007/_M...platesapp.html

Also, I belive that the frames are the same for the 90-91 and 92-95. I don't know if the tanks etc cans wap, but I know that on the Yahoo group a few guys have mentioned that they are the same.

OK, can't think of anything else.

Oh and the Dynojet, sidecover off the airbox mod is a huge improvement. Lots of power. Still probably won't wheelie w/o a gear change but it is a lot more grunt.

Cheers! Jason
quint7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 01:00 PM   #127
SteveBroskey
Teach me this knowledge
 
SteveBroskey's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Oddometer: 541
Pissed

Quote:
Originally Posted by quint7
So..............
Steve, I'm the guy that had the bike on Craigslist. I did see your posts on here at the time..... no hurt feelings, but everything I said about the bike was and is still accurate. So much so that after getting lowballed over and over I kept the bike and all spares to use as a beater/ fire road bike. I have it all nice nice and am happy to list my mods/ tips. Glad you got a bike you could afford!
Starting:
As has been said MANY times: Turn fuel to ON. Pull the choke. Hit the kill switch. Hold the decomp lever in and kick it 4 or 5 times. Release the lever and slowly kick til it clicks out. Hit the kill switch back to run. DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Kick it HARD. Repeat the decomp/ kick series until it fires. Let it run on full choke until you KNOW it is warm.

Choke cable swap: Jesse sells a DR350 choke on his site and I got one. I don't know if the 96-up are different but I didn't like how short it was, so after looking at the microfiche I saw that the 90-91 had a regular choke-on-carb set-up like Jesse sells. I bought that and love it. It has a MUCH longer rod on the plunger. I ditched the cable choke and am happy.
Heya Quint -
No worries dude, and don't feel bad, I lowball everybody no hard feelings? (and I replied to at least 3 dozen CL ads, I'll assume yours was the nice DR that we got to talking skidplates...)
Rod-Choke, got it already.
Springs and all that other stuff is nice - but I've got to get her started first, and something isn't right.

I've written down all the carb jetting details, and was going to post them, thinking that might be it. But I tried an old technique a family friend told me to do: soak a rag in gas, put it in the airbox with the filter out, let the fumes head into the carb and try starting it that way. No dice. This is bad, because I thought that my no-starting was limited to a carb problem.

Apparently it's not. I need to find a compression tester next, though I was told to take out a plug and seal the hole with my thumb. Kick it over, and the thumb should pop off (not be able to hold it on). Clearly a meter will be better, but I have to try the thumb technique as well. I can't even get the bike to fire a few times!

Thanks for all the starting help folks, I've been working the technique hard, but it looks like my technique wasn't the [only] problem.
Here's what I've got:
Took out both plugs, nice sparks, gapped them just to be sure.
Disassembled carb. Wrote down non-stock settings, cleaned(soaked) for days, reassembled (didn't soak O-rings or other rubber parts). Put it all back together.
Tried the rag-soaked-in-gasoline-in-the-airbox approach, which is essentially like using starter fluid. Nothin.
It wouldn't even fire once.
Next thing? I think I should compression test, and if that doesn't work, I guess timing?? Any help or suggestions? Honestly quint, if you've got any advice or want to come take a look at her, I'd be appreciative, but don't expect anything. Heh - especially after I was lo-ball'n ya

[Time for the new project - who can help??]

SteveBroskey screwed with this post 09-11-2007 at 01:07 PM
SteveBroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 01:22 PM   #128
toolfan
Broken Hearted
 
toolfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: NoPo (pdx)
Oddometer: 9,543
How old is the gas?
Did you actually try starter fluid or just the gas soaked rag?
Did you soak the rag in the same (presumably old) gas?

First guess - I'd say bad gas. Second guess would be the decomp lever is sticking, that'd take away your compression without having something catastrophic happen.

Other than that - I don't know anything that would be simple.
toolfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 01:29 PM   #129
quint7
I don't need a title
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Finger Lakes (Rochester) NY
Oddometer: 459
Hmmmmmmmmm

Steve, I was thinkin maybe the kill switch is stuck but if you are getting spark.....
maybe your petcock is bad. If you can rig up a way to flow fuel or something... although you did try the rag thing. I can't pretend to be a mechanic, but if there is spark and fuel I gotta think it would at least try to fire.
Shoulda bought mine! LOL just kidding!
The things I saw with the stock tank was that the gas cap needed to be off sometimes after it sat or it wouldn't fire.
Hmmmmmmmmm...............
well check that kill switch and the sidestand switch to make sure they aren't cutting the ignition. Small things first as I'm sure everyone on here will repeat.
quint7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 05:15 PM   #130
SteveBroskey
Teach me this knowledge
 
SteveBroskey's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Oddometer: 541
Excitement, followed by shame

So I got out of work early enough to go home and check compression. Like an idiot, I do the standard starting procedure; decomp lever, yada yada, and plug the hole with my thumb (middle finger, but who cares). Phft. It doesn't blow my thumb right of - ha! It must be a compression issue! (Wait you moron, you used the decomp. lever. Oh, right.
Try it with no lever, that seems like a much better amount of compression.

So then I ran the problems past the my biggest local reference (Steve at CycleStop - great guy, here's a plug for them for parts) - and he says to check the valves. I need a set of feeler gauges. We've got them here. Great, be right down. Forty mins later, I'm back in the garage for my first ever valve adjusting session. two hours after that (and my friend cancelling dinner on me ), I'm putting the valve access covers back on, and opt for the wrench instead of the rachet. Twi-ist, Twi-ist, twist-really-quick-and-easy.... Umm... Did I not tighten the other ones enough? Oh fuck. (Pardon my french.) Oh no no no no.... ratchet bolt all the way out - stripped the hole. Well, that's what you get when you , isn't it? So I should have bought the torque wrench that I was considering investing in, and now I have a stripped hole on ... is it the head? Dang.

And here I was all set to come write a post about "Oh - I found it - the valve adjustment was weird!" and ask you guys questions about "Wait, shouldn't the rocker arm come totally off the valves at some point? Because the screws were definitely adjusted more than all the way down - and yes, I made sure the piston was TDC (according to the magneto wheel).

But now I have a stripped hole. @#$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So. :::siiiiiigh::: What do I have to do fellas? Buy a new top-end? Can I get the hole tapped? Sigh; help me out here, I'm all with a side of , and just think - tonight was going to be at the Old Toad.

SteveBroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 06:22 PM   #131
quint7
I don't need a title
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Finger Lakes (Rochester) NY
Oddometer: 459
MMMMMMMM Beer

Well Steve, I was gonna head to Salingers or one of my friends other bars for a beer........ but maybe I'll stop by the toad for ya and have em pull me a pint.

That sucks man........ I busted the cltch hub on mine when I was puting the new clutch in. I used a torque wrench.... I just had been misinformed as to WHAT that torque was!

I think that you might wanna take it in to Cycle Stop or at least pull the head and have someone look at it.

That really sucks though man. There was a "older" head floating around Ebay from time to time if I remember.

Either way, I still don't know if the valves could have been so outta adjustment that you couldn't even get a hint turning over.

You might want to cross-post this on the regular DR thread or start a new one as this is a basic mechanical problem now and not just a Older DR specific problem.



I'll have a few for ya!

Cheers, Jason
quint7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 07:46 PM   #132
SteveBroskey
Teach me this knowledge
 
SteveBroskey's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by quint7
Well Steve, I was gonna head to Salingers or one of my friends other bars for a beer........ but maybe I'll stop by the toad for ya and have em pull me a pint.

I'll have a few for ya!

Cheers, Jason
Thanks Jason - if went to the toad, I was the quiet one in the corner - green jacket, immersed in a book.
SteveBroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2007, 10:12 PM   #133
toolfan
Broken Hearted
 
toolfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: NoPo (pdx)
Oddometer: 9,543
You might be able to pull the head and take it to a machine shop to have a helicoil put in.
But, the valve covers aren't terribly important - worst case it'll wep some oil.
These old DRs are pretty simple machines, if you've got spark and you've got compression and you've got gas, you should have a runner.
No big noises when you kick it over?
If I were you, I'd give it a squirt of starting fluid straight down the throat of the carb. That'll eliminate for sure fuel from the unknowns. Then I'd start trying to verify that the ignition and cam timing are within spec. Then I'd probably start the thing on fire.

edit to add - actually, before I set it on fire, I'd pull the head. When I got my '95, it had stock jetting, which was insanely lean. Like, it would poop out on the freeway lean. I imagine if someone pushed one pretty good you'd run the risk of valve or piston damage due to the incredibly lean mix.

And further to add - if you end up not getting it to work and you dissassemble the engine in effort - i'd buy the kick starting gear from you. ('95s are e-start only, and I think it'd be kinda fun to put a kicker on mine.)
toolfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 07:35 AM   #134
SteveBroskey
Teach me this knowledge
 
SteveBroskey's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
You might be able to pull the head and take it to a machine shop to have a helicoil put in.
What's a helicoil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
But, the valve covers aren't terribly important - worst case it'll wep some oil.
Ohh, I like that (well, not like, but it's better than buying a new top-end).
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
These old DRs are pretty simple machines, if you've got spark and you've got compression and you've got gas, you should have a runner.
No big noises when you kick it over?
"Should", I keep hearing that word... No, no mashing/grinding/banging when I kick it over - .... occasionally it will make a "Bank!" Sound when I kick it good and hard, but I think that's just the kickstarter going into the R-side foot peg real solidly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
If I were you, I'd give it a squirt of starting fluid straight down the throat of the carb. That'll eliminate for sure fuel from the unknowns. Then I'd start trying to verify that the ignition and cam timing are within spec. Then I'd probably start the thing on fire.
Yeah, that's what the gas-soaked rag was for. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
edit to add - actually, before I set it on fire, I'd pull the head. When I got my '95, it had stock jetting, which was insanely lean. Like, it would poop out on the freeway lean. I imagine if someone pushed one pretty good you'd run the risk of valve or piston damage due to the incredibly lean mix.
Check for piston/ring damage, on the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
And further to add - if you end up not getting it to work and you dissassemble the engine in effort - i'd buy the kick starting gear from you. ('95s are e-start only, and I think it'd be kinda fun to put a kicker on mine.)
Good to know - I'll keep it in mind.
SteveBroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2007, 09:06 AM   #135
toolfan
Broken Hearted
 
toolfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: NoPo (pdx)
Oddometer: 9,543
Try the starting fluid. I don't fully trust the gas soaked rag. I've seen bikes that absolutely won't start run for several minutes on starting fluid. I have no doubt that running for several minutes on starting fluid is horrible for the bike, but firing it a time or two won't do any damage and you'll be positive that you either have or don't have a fuel delivery issue.

A helicoil is like a tightly wound spring that is wound such that you can thread a bolt into it. A machine shop will drill out your stripped bolt hole, then thread the helicoil into that. You then thread a bolt into the helicoil just like you would the original threaded hole.

The reason people list the 4 basic things an engine needs is because the best way to go about it is to eliminate them one by one. Air is pretty much always there, so that leaves three. Shooting starting fluid through the carb eliminates fuel, leaving two. Compression is easy to check, now you are down to one. You have spark, the last thing would be to make sure the spark happens at the right time.
toolfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014