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Old 11-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #211
brent tex
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Yeah, I second that, Ill definitely buy some t-shirts to help your effort.
Hope the bike testing goes well, and take care of that ankle.
Cheers.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:53 AM   #212
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Things we have learnt this weekend...

1. The is a bastard hidden screw behind the starter motor torque limiter, which you need to pull out and remove the bolt, before you can get the left hand engine case off a WR (ok, RTFM)...

2. The torx bolts that hold the stock stator in place are made of cheese.

3. The Trail-Tech Stator and reg/rec upgrade coverts the whole bike to DC (no separate AC circuit for the headlight anymore) - I realized this when I turned the ignition on, and the headlight came on without the engine running!

I presume this is an 'upgrade' and that the full 100+W goes into the battery now... previously, the headlight (35W) ran off the AC, and the rest was converted to DC for the battery etc. However, the stock WR stator is 120W, so that would mean around 85W was DC? - certainly the stock reg/rec is tiny - but my concern is I'm still not getting enough juice to run the HID when the headlight is also on, and the fan... because:

4. Even though I meticulously wired the HID using a separate loom and switch and everything... it has trouble firing up sometimes (comes on momentarily, then cuts out) and also, once it is running, if you blip the throttle with the engine running, the HID cuts out (and doesn't come back on). I don;t suppose anyone has any ideas? - I'm about to go and pull it all off the WR and hook it up to the Tenere to ascertain if it is the HID set (either a dodgy ballast or relay perhaps?), or if my weedy little WR can't cope with all it's bright manliness...

5. Staying up until 1.30am, drinking beer and inhaling exhaust fumes, is really not very good for you. I have felt sick all day today.

6. It is bloody cold in Wales at this time of the year - yep, I took the WR for a test ride today:



And it ran faultlessly (and felt great - no need to mess with anything I feel), other than the bloody HID, that, even with a full charge in he battery, cuts out as soon as you rev the engine - gaaaaaaaaah!

So, while I go and curse in the shed, a few more photos of some details:

That lovely set of water tanks by GMX (fitted to a Flatland Racing bashplate):


The wiring complete, all bar the GPS aerials and Speedocap unit that is in the post (from France):


I also have to cable-wrap the remote wires once the IMO sensor cable is refitted...

The fuel line routing - looks convoluted, but there is method in the madness:


The two-way tap on the subframe selects either front or rear tanks, and the fuel then goes through a single filter, into the vacuum pump, and into the carb. The hose from the centre (aluminium) tank also has it's own tap, so I can isolate it and use it as a final back-up reserve - which means I can have just the front (pair) main tanks (20L), just the rear tank (5L) or the rear and the centre tank together (10L). It's interesting that like the front tanks self- balance (as they are joined together before the fuel tap), so too if you turn on the centre tank, it fills up the rear tank again until it reaches a level...

This could work in my favor, as in sand it's possible to use the front tanks first, keeping the weight over the rear, and then once I start using the rear, can keep it topped up with the extra 5L in the centre tank - result!

Still doesn't make my bloody HID work properly though does it!!!

J x
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:31 AM   #213
tofire409
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I'm not a HID expert, but I did install one in my KLR this summer.

What happened to me was the ballast didn't like the draw when I hit the starter. If I didn't let the bulb come up to full temp before I started the bike, the light would go out. The company said that the ballast didn't like "hot re-strikes" and that the ballast was designed to do that to protect it. The only thing that I can suggest is that the current to the ballast is dropping and causing it to shut off...odd when there should be plenty of power to it. Have you wired it (through a relay) to the battery?

Sorry, that's all the help I can give.

Good luck!
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:07 AM   #214
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Mystery... solved.

Imagine you spent yesterday 'on a stage' for 16 hours, not getting into the Bivouac until 2am - cold, exhausted, and feeling queazy after inhaling gallons of CO... but hey, you completed the stage, right?

Then the next day you're out in the desert, when your HID fails... it's getting dark, but every time you rev the engine your HID light cuts out... the tell-tale on the dash is still illuminated so there must be power to the relay, but every time you switch the HID off and back on again, and rev the engine, the light cuts out...

Fortunately you stop at an oasis, and there, under the trees is a Tenere XT660Z - in full rally spec (what are the chances of that then?!) - so you remove your whole HID lamp, ballast and loom from your WR and connect it to the Tenere, which someone had the forethought to leave the key in, and the battery fully charged...

And presto - your HID works absolutely fine, you rev the Tenere lump to the stratosphere and no problems at all, whilet he Tenere stator/battery combo is kicking out a healthy 14.5 volts... hmmmm, you think - maybe the little battery in your WR is not man enough to drive this big chunky ballast after all?

So you ride on a little way, and find someone has left a brand new, bog stock WR450F in a little Bedouin tent (thank you Yamaha UK x)... so again, you hook up your 'portable' lamp/ballast/loom combo to the stock bike, start the bike, switch on the HID, rev the engine, and blow me if it doesn't work perfectly too, albeit the stock stator is only putting out around 12.8-13V... (erm, so maybe I didn't need that new stator after all?!)

So you walk back to your rally bike, with your lamp/ballast/loom combo - reconnect the loom to the battery, and give it another go... and bloody hell it works... rev the engine, still works... it doesn't cut out every time you switch it on, it just works... the uprated stator is kicking out a decent 13.5v too - nice.

So you look at the dash of your rally bike and think what is different... the only thing not in the circuit is the tell-tale lamp which is still fitted into the alloy panel...

You prize out the tell-tale, connect it to the switch on your loom, and...

The bloody light cuts out.

You take the tell-tale out of the loop, switch on the HID, and everything works perfectly.

You fit the tell-tale again, just to make sure... the light cuts out.

You take the tell-tale and smash it with a hammer.

You feel much better now.

J x
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:08 AM   #215
bigborefan
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It seems electrical is always a nightmare on these rally bikes.

Glad you sorted it out.

Now you just need some sweet graphics. The bike is looking really good. Good job on the build.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:09 AM   #216
schattat
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Damn, you're quick! I was just writing a report on HID failure diagnostics for you!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)
Imagine you spent yesterday 'on a stage' for 16 hours, not getting into the Bivouac until 2am - cold, exhausted, and feeling queazy after inhaling gallons of CO... but hey, you completed the stage, right?

Then the next day you're out in the desert, when your HID fails... it's getting dark, but every time you rev the engine your HID light cuts out... the tell-tale on the dash is still illuminated so there must be power to the relay, but every time you switch the HID off and back on again, and rev the engine, the light cuts out...

Fortunately you stop at an oasis, and there, under the trees is a Tenere XT660Z - in full rally spec (what are the chances of that then?!) - so you remove your whole HID lamp, ballast and loom from your WR and connect it to the Tenere, which someone had the forethought to leave the key in, and the battery fully charged...

And presto - your HID works absolutely fine, you rev the Tenere lump to the stratosphere and no problems at all, whilet he Tenere stator/battery combo is kicking out a healthy 14.5 volts... hmmmm, you think - maybe the little battery in your WR is not man enough to drive this big chunky ballast after all?

So you ride on a little way, and find someone has left a brand new, bog stock WR450F in a little Bedouin tent (thank you Yamaha UK x)... so again, you hook up your 'portable' lamp/ballast/loom combo to the stock bike, start the bike, switch on the HID, rev the engine, and blow me if it doesn't work perfectly too, albeit the stock stator is only putting out around 12.8-13V... (erm, so maybe I didn't need that new stator after all?!)

So you walk back to your rally bike, with your lamp/ballast/loom combo - reconnect the loom to the battery, and give it another go... and bloody hell it works... rev the engine, still works... it doesn't cut out every time you switch it on, it just works... the uprated stator is kicking out a decent 13.5v too - nice.

So you look at the dash of your rally bike and think what is different... the only thing not in the circuit is the tell-tale lamp which is still fitted into the alloy panel...

You prize out the tell-tale, connect it to the switch on your loom, and...

The bloody light cuts out.

You take the tell-tale out of the loop, switch on the HID, and everything works perfectly.

You fit the tell-tale again, just to make sure... the light cuts out.

You take the tell-tale and smash it with a hammer.

You feel much better now.

J x
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:10 AM   #217
tofire409
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Glad you got it fixed!!

Good carpenter and it looks like mechanic as well can fix anything with a hammer!!
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:16 AM   #218
JMo (& piglet) OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofire409
Glad you got it fixed!!

Good carpenter and it looks like mechanic as well can fix anything with a hammer!!
There is a quote (I think it might be someone's signature on here actually) I really like:

"All tools are hammers... except screwdrivers, they're chisels..."

J x
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:22 AM   #219
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Good job figuring that out, Jenny. I hate electrical stuff. Next bike, I'm flying Tony over here to wire it up for me.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:24 AM   #220
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Quote:
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Next bike, I'm flying Tony over here to wire it up for me.
LOL! It'd actually be my pleasure! Been all over the world, except for the US
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:30 AM   #221
schattat
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Jenny, one question.
What effect do the 35w headlight, the HID, the fan, and all the other electrics (running at the same time) have on the charging system of the battery.

As an example, the HID system needs a good 7amps @12-13V to ignite and get warm, thereafter only 3amps. Together with the above mentioned stuff, this may cause problems with charging the battery, thus meaning no electric start!

PS: I assume you've got a larger capacity battery installed (stock one is only 4Ah)?
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:40 AM   #222
JMo (& piglet) OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schattat
Jenny, one question.
What effect do the 35w headlight, the HID, the fan, and all the other electrics (running at the same time) have on the charging system of the battery.

As an example, the HID system needs a good 7amps @12-13V to ignite and get warm, thereafter only 3amps. Together with the above mentioned stuff, this may cause problems with charging the battery, thus meaning no electric start!

PS: I assume you've got a larger capacity battery installed (stock one is only 4Ah)?
Hi Tony - yes, I believe that was basically the problem Neil had in Dos Sertoes...

The battery in my bike is a Yuasa YTZ7S - so presumably 7 amp hours?*

Sticking a meter on my battery, it seems to drop to about 12.3V when everything is switched on (Nav, fan and HID) - but goes up to about 12.8V if you raise the revs... you probably know more than me, but the guys at Trail Tech seemed to think their stator would be fine to run the HID and the fan, and keep the battery topped up?

A few posts back Spick mentioned he runs an HID with the stock battery (admittedly not a fan too) - but hopefully there won't be too many times I'm going to need both (unless I'm stuck all night in the dunes!)

J x

I had a look, it says 6Ah...

JMo (& piglet) screwed with this post 11-14-2010 at 01:50 PM
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:03 PM   #223
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remove the darn HID and stator already and go for some LED lights...
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:12 PM   #224
JMo (& piglet) OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie
remove the darn HID and stator already and go for some LED lights...
Three hours ago I was all set to do that...

I reckon a Vision X would sit very nicely in the hole for the HID projector:



But I think there is a good reason that pretty much everyone uses these Hella Xenons on their rally bikes?

J x
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:27 PM   #225
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Sorry if I sound a little stunned, but what's the Tell Tale lamp?

Glad to hear you have it sorted.

I imagine why folks aren't running LEDs more prominently is that they haven't been fully tested in a rally environment? That and products are only coming to market now. I just noticed that Trail Tech is now offering some aux LED lights when looking over their site today. Hopefully as they become more mainstream the prices will come down too.

A friend of mine picked up one of these to use as a supplemental night trail light instead of going upgraded stator and lamp route. He's very happy with the performance of the light, it kicks out a lot of bright white light, and you can't beat the price.
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