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Old 09-08-2010, 10:09 PM   #16
kkug
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Location: Escondido Ca .USA
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Sounds great -looking for a ride report. The weather is cooling down -are you going to make it home before it snows !
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:20 PM   #17
Lost Rider OP
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Thanks again to the folks who helped.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:29 AM   #18
JRWooden
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Excellent ...

Now ... about the "dark arts" steps
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:33 PM   #19
YetiGS
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Finn, glad you got it fixed. I've been "absent" for a bit so I missed this. By your Spot tracker I was right near you when this was all going on.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:13 PM   #20
huckleberry
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nice single track you were on! how many miles of that did you ride?
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:05 PM   #21
Bobo1167
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Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Auburn, WA
Oddometer: 270
This is the easiest clutch to change....ever

No "special tools" needed, if you don't count the torx and e sockets as weird. even then only three sizes needed. Even a Honda 90 needs a special tool.

I have 32K miles and have a nicely burnt clutch, with no lever adjustment left.

I took it apart this afternoon, in 30 minutes, never having to get up off the floor. Chitown could easily do this job in a campground.

Now I just have to locate the parts.

Big question, should I replace the solid plates too? Mine are kinda darkened, but not what I'd call burnt.

little observation, there are 18 plates, in my basket some of the middle ish plates had almost no oil on them, and show less wear. The more outer plates were nicely oiled and showed burnt oil evidence on the outer edges. What's up with the uneven oil distribution?

Pictures and caliper measurements might come tomorrow.

bobo
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:49 AM   #22
JRWooden
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bobo:

I would say the steel plates are probably ok unless badly scored, burnt, or warped. In the "old days" sometimes the metal plates were stippled (had small depressions in them) I guess to hold some extra oil.

I just found the chart below in the "technical data" section of the DVD ... I wish they would reference these charts in the repair part of the manual or put them in-line with the repairs ... damit....... (Joe sorry I didn't have this chart handy when your side cover was off.......)

Anway, if you've got a calipers and a flat plate handy (I use a sheet of thick glass) you can check the limits. Table below is from the Rev. #4 DVD for F800GS
Seems kinda funny that a new lined plate could be 3.5mm +/- 0.08 (so could be as thin as 3.42 mm and still meet spec.) and that the wear limit is 3.40 mm - thus giving you a whopping 0.02mm of wear prior to replacement ... why gosh ... that's almost a whole 0.001"

The wear & warp limit on the plates is 0.15mm or about 0.006"
Be sure to the free length of the springs, but since the clutch has undergone a re-design the free length may have changed (or it might be the same and just be using heavier gauge spring wire).



21 - Clutch


Designation
Condition
Value
Valid
Clutch type
Multiplate clutch running in oil bath

Number of clutch plates
9 steel plates
9 friction plates

21 21 - Clutch with driver plate
Thickness of one lined plate
When new
3.5
+0.08
0.08
mm

Wear limit
min 3.4 mm
Thickness of one steel plate
When new
1.5
+0.05
0.05
mm

Distortion of one lined plate
Wear limit
max 0.15 mm

Distortion of one steel plate
Wear limit
max 0.15 mm

Clutch spring length
When new, no load on spring
63 mm

Wear limit, no load on spring
min 60 mm
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:36 PM   #23
Bobo1167
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The numbers are in.....

I have changed to inch scale because it's more precise (in the tolerences humans can see). And that's what kind of tool i bought.

Clutch disc minimum 3.4 mm = 0.134 inches
Spring minimum 60 mm = 2.362 inches

I started with the outermost disc, .139". I had to get more beer to continue, and checked the conversion scale. Hmmmm, that's plenty of meat. Then discs 2 to 8 about . 135 each. Then the inner most disc .125

The biggest spring was 2.425 and then down to about 2.4"

Lesson: when there's no clutch adjustment left, it's worn out.

How did I do this in 32K miles? I had much time to think that out in the cage today. I spent the last two summer seasons doing my best to avoid the interstate. Smaller roads = more shifting. Then when I get off pavement I can rarely go more than 5 miles without stopping, there were lots of starts and stops. Add in, my genetic makeup requires what has been described as, "acellerate like a raped ape", at all times.

I don't think a worn out clutch is that bad given those conditions. I do think the $500 bill is quite spectacular, it will go down. This motor has been designed to have this clutch changed. If the dealer charges more than an hour, the guy is getting lunch in there too.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, I hope this is good content. I'll try to add pictures tomorrow. Some of the black magic. And there's a really cool spot to smuggle diamonds under the clutch cover.

bobo
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #24
JRWooden
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thanks Bobo....

The springs with variance of 0.025 that seems fine.

I'm thinking ... hmmmmmmmmmm only one plate (the inner most one) is really far out of spec.... I wonder what happens if you just replace that one...???

The mechanical advantage ratio of the clutch arm on the disk pack means it doesn't take much of a change in "stack height" to make the arm move from one end of the adjustment range to the other ...

and .. I agree 32K miles is not bad given your driving style...
and ...
yeah it does seem like a set of friction disks should cost a lot less bucks...

Thanks for the dark art comments and pics in advance!

JRWooden screwed with this post 09-13-2010 at 09:25 PM
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:32 AM   #25
Bobo1167
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Location: Auburn, WA
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Under the clutch cover

Or the left engine cover. The mushroom looking thing in the center is the clutch release thing. in this picture it's released and the clutch is engaged.


Now I've pulled in the clutch, the mushroom thing gets pulled outboard against the ball bearing in the center of the disc stack at the top of the picture. Black magic point here, the shope manual has a special note that the "flat" on the mushroom thing needs to match a line from 1:30 to 7:30, so it can grab the shaft correctly when the cover goes on.


this the disc stack. Clutch release bearing in the center.

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Old 09-16-2010, 11:44 AM   #26
Bobo1167
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Oddometer: 270
On the engine side, the clutch basket

the hole under the basket at 7:00 is the oil in the oil pan. The dipstick goes into that hole. You don't need to drain the oil to do this job (on level ground), I lost maybe 4 oz when the cover came off.

Under the cover on the upper left is a void, dry, hot, secret, big enough to smuggle diamonds. And since this cover is so easy to get off.........

the big hole about 9:00 to the left of the basket I think is the center of the crankshaft. The hole at 11:00 is another long oil journal.

I scare myself when I think about how if a guy just fell over on the correct pointy rock, that hit the cover in the right spot, there could be serious day spoiling carnage.



The mushroom thing out of it's hole, to show the "flat" side.



I've been threatened with getting my parts, clutch discs, spings, gasket and pointy hat tool for the shifter shaft, and 20% tax and fast shipping $450ish, this afternoon. I'll soak the discs overnight and maybe put it together tommorow night. A weeks downtime for a clutch isn't bad, but, the whole job, even the first time, won't take me two hours total work.

bobo

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Old 09-16-2010, 03:26 PM   #27
BMW_BIKER_KEITH
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This may be a dumb question... But is there a flywheel in there somewhere that may need re-surfacing? Or since this is a wet clutch system, maybe there is no flywheel?
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:32 PM   #28
chadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_BIKER_KEITH
This may be a dumb question... But is there a flywheel in there somewhere that may need re-surfacing? Or since this is a wet clutch system, maybe there is no flywheel?
The steel plates in the clutch pack server the same purpose of a flywheel in a usual car type setup, so no need to machine, just replace when replacing the fibre plates. I change both fibre and steel plates as it's not required very often so I rather be safe then needing to tear the cover off down the track.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:28 AM   #29
MCMXCIVRS
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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I'll be doing my clutch soon too. Got into some mud and really cooked it up bad. No adjustment left and slipping.

Question: How much adjustment did the rest of you have from new?

On mine, the adjuster nuts were all ready two thirds of the way up the threads on the cable when new. It seems there is not a lot of life in these clutches from the begining, and a bit of hard use will be the end of it. Might be a good aftermarket opportunity for someone to produce a tougher unit. Only 16,000 Kms on mine.

What sort of cost is the whole set of friction and steel plates running just so I go in prepared for the shock.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:53 AM   #30
JRWooden
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The Max BMW fiche lists the "kit" at $333.xx

I think that is springs, friction disks, and the metal plates.
(not 100% sure on the metal plates being included... but ChiTown's pics show those ... maybe he'll jump in...)
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