ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-18-2010, 10:35 AM   #31
Lost Rider OP
Roadie
 
Lost Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura County, California Republic
Oddometer: 3,162
Yeah, you are correct JR.

Sorry for the slacking, been riding, it's nice to see this thread coming along with good info...

From what I read, most is true... Especially about the secret stash spot!

It's an easy job, no reason to take it to a dealer IMO.

Just be sure to get the two plates that are machined with narrower teeth on first and last.
They might not be the two that have different G7 or G8 markings....

This isn't fun posting from the iPhone, when I get home I'll update with many photos...

BTW, the new clutch did well yesterday riding Engineer, Cinnamon, Black Bear, and Ophir pass!
__________________
Photography for me is not about recreating what I saw through
the viewfinder but to show people the way I want to see the world.

LostRider.com

Lost Rider screwed with this post 09-21-2010 at 03:24 PM
Lost Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 06:46 PM   #32
MCMXCIVRS
Beastly Adventurer
 
MCMXCIVRS's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Oddometer: 1,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
The Max BMW fiche lists the "kit" at $333.xx

I think that is springs, friction disks, and the metal plates.
(not 100% sure on the metal plates being included... but ChiTown's pics show those ... maybe he'll jump in...)
That's about what I figured. Probably be somewhere around $500+ Canadian.
MCMXCIVRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 12:50 PM   #33
Bobo1167
On a different frequency
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Auburn, WA
Oddometer: 270
The clutch "kit" includes almost everything

friction discs, steel discs, springs. $333.79 on my receipt. the friction discs came in two packages, two discs for the inner and outer most positions and seven discs for in between. One of the steel discs is colored black and goes in first.

add the gasket $24.99

I couldn't buy the cap for the shift shaft (it protects the shaft seal from the sharp edges of the splined shaft, when you put the cover on). though it's priced at $13.59.

I'm going to guess I had little adjustment left on the clutch when I got mine new. I fooled with it a lot in order to gain the most slack at the lever (I have small hands and needed the lever closer to the bars). Now there's lots of adjustment, and the engagement point feels wider, pretty much like you'd expect.

bobo

Bobo1167 screwed with this post 09-20-2010 at 12:56 PM
Bobo1167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 02:47 PM   #34
JRWooden
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: The great state of confusion
Oddometer: 4,204
Thanks Bobo ...
It does sound like they are trying to make it idiot-resistant

In the past I have just wrapped a layer of electrical tape around the splined gear-shift shaft to keep it from cutting the oil seal, I reckon I'll keep on with that plan...

I'd just loose the cap again before I needed it anyway...
JRWooden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 10:07 AM   #35
Lost Rider OP
Roadie
 
Lost Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura County, California Republic
Oddometer: 3,162
OK, as promised...

First, you need to wear out your clutch. I suggest lots of off-tarmac miles, but a mud hole, or steep climb, or sandy wash will do.


Then order the Clutch kit from BMW that includes springs, plates, and friction disks. I also ordered the gasket, but the old one stayed intact so being a cheap bastard I just re-used it and returned the new one to the dealer. Thousands of miles later no leaking.

There's seven disks that were marked G8 and two marked G7. The old ones out of the bike were marked G5 and G6.
8 steel plates the same, one with a divot and darker in color.







Here you can see one of the two plates that are machined to have a slightly narrower tooth.






The plates without the machining.












Both














Dont forget to soak the new plates in oil.














I changed the oil while I was at it so thats where I started.











I removed the cable.








and the sidestand, along with the many 9mm screws holding the cover on.










Removed shift lever, cover spline with e-tape, remove cover. Here the shift lever came out with the cover, was easy to pop back in.





















Old plates






This is the first plate on the clutch, closest to the motor. It was the only one that was severely worn....







I noticed this half and half weirdness










They don't look too bad do they?




















new longer springs







OK, the IMPORTANT part.

Its absolutely necessary to get the one plate with the divot as shown in the manual in first, followed by one of the machined disks with narrower teeth.
What I found with my kit after hours of trying to figure out what I did wrong was that the machined plated were NOT both the ones marked different.
I screwed up, and didn't pay attention to the machining (after I photographed it) and just looked at the G7 markings.
One of my plates marked G7 was NOT one of the machined ones, so when installed my assembly was wider than it should be since without that machined first disk, it didnt go all the way in.






This is what it looks like when it's WRONG. When put back together, the thing that pulls the clutch out is too far out also, and wont allow the clutch to be disengaged. This is where I had trouble, feeling confident that I had put the correctly labeled disks in the right order. I was wrong to trust the markings and not pay closer attention.







This is what is looks like when you take one plate and one disk out... what I did to confirm that problem was with the spacing, not in my methods to get the cover back on correctly, which many different BMW techs were suggesting.






Finally realizing what was going on I took it back apart, put the correct plates in, and it went back together easily.











There's one clean section on my bike!.... not for long.









It really was a simple task, but can be screwed up like I demonstrated... it should not take someone smarter than I that pays closer attention to detail or a BMW tech more than an hour to do this. No special tools needed, just what you should have in your tool kit anyways.








Now go wear out that clutch!
__________________
Photography for me is not about recreating what I saw through
the viewfinder but to show people the way I want to see the world.

LostRider.com

Lost Rider screwed with this post 09-28-2010 at 04:29 PM
Lost Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 12:29 PM   #36
Bobo1167
On a different frequency
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Auburn, WA
Oddometer: 270
I had the advantage of the shop manual in front of me

And had some clue about the different friction discs. Especially since they came packaged separately. I didn't see the markings or the machined bits, but I don't see to good either. The shop manual does note that the solid discs go in "sharp edge in".

I didn't even think about the tape on the shifter shaft. If my seal leaks, it will surely be a $10 part that needs a $25 gasket behind it.

I did however check carefully and ALL 16 COVER SCREWS ARE THE SAME LENGTH. I will try to suck the torque sequence picture out of the manual, it is not what you'd expect.

bobo
Bobo1167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:24 PM   #37
Bobo1167
On a different frequency
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Auburn, WA
Oddometer: 270
More details for the analyzers in the asylum

I made a list of tools needed to get through a clutch change......

2 13mm open end wrenches, or 1 13mm open end and a 6" cresent wrench (something to hold the locknut) to remove and install the clutch cable.

E8 socket (kinda the reverse of a torx bit) or a 1/4" 6 point socket to loosen the shift lever. A clever guy would swap that E8 screw for an 8mm hex head.

Some kinda wedge thing to spread the shift lever open a bit. A medium flat bladed screwdriver is the classic tool, a knife blade would probably work.

Torx 45 for the footpeg mount. These are the only tight screws in the project.

Torx 30 or an 8mm socket for the 16 left engine cover screws. They are all the same length, mix at match at your leisure.

Torx 30 for the 6 screws holding the six springs. These are long screws.

Some kinda skinny thing with a hook at the end to pull the discs out of the basket. I used a Harbor freight "dental" tool.

Torque wrenches are also suggested, YMMV.
the extensive tool kit would look like this


If you were going to put together a care package for someone who needs to do this in a parking lot, add......

some kinda cleaner spray stuff. WD40 would be ok. To attempt to clean the cover and engine edges of mud before doing anything else.

a roll of paper towels to clean up that mess, and several others.

a couple of zip ties to hold the footpeg out of the way and to not strain the kickstand switch wire.

something to catch the couple ounces of oil that will spill when the cover comes off. Some disposable pie pans would be perfect, 1 for the dirty oil, 2 to use to soak the friction discs before assembly.

a quart of 10/40 oil for soaking, and to replace the tiny bit that fell out.

something to clean little bits of gasket from the cover. I used a paint scraper razor blade, a sharp knife blade would work.

Two beers. This goes so fast, that's all you'll need.

and the parts...........

BMW part numbers 21 21 7 699 586 for the package of springs, friction and steel discs. it comes in a cool little box, for the price it should be made of unobtanium, and from JAPAN !!!!


These are the parts....



BMW part 11 11 7 707 906 gasket....

I puzzled a bit last nite about how to identify the two different friction discs. This will be important when you get the whole mess mixed up in the oil soaking bath. The easier way to figure this out is to pile ALL the disc up and hold them this way. It is easy to FEEL the differing tang widths when they are side by side.



One final really bad picture of the innermost steel disc, it goes in first, it's the darker colored one, and has the dimple punched in the edge. Per the shop manual, all the steel discs go in, "sharp edge in".



To prevent any copyright issues with BMW, I made my own picture for the tightening sequence on the left engine cover. It's ChiTowns dirty engine, I put the numbers on.


the torque values are........

the 6 screws that hold the spings down 10NM = 7.3 Ft/lb. in a crossing pattern.

the 16 left engine cover screws 12NM = 8.8 Ft/lb and the sequence in the picture above.

the 2 screws for the foot peg bracket 38NM = 28 Ft/lb. I used some loctite too.

and for the truly anal, the shift lever screw 8NM = 5.9Ft/lb

Those are really, really low torque values. I did use a cordless drill to seat the long clutch basket spring screws. I had the drill torque set to minimum (1), that alone was nearly 10NM. Do not let anyone over-caffinated and excited touch those screws, a strong guy could wreck the aluminum clutch basket or engine case threads with one hand.
Bobo1167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 05:22 PM   #38
GSranger
blacksheep
 
GSranger's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: graham, wa - near Mt. Rainier
Oddometer: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown
I noticed this half and half weirdness





I would think that is your burnt up clutch material that mixed with oil, heated, and baked onto that part. "half and half" because of the oil settling when you shut off your engine.

Just my 2 cents.

Did you clean that material off before reassembly?
GSranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 05:42 PM   #39
Lost Rider OP
Roadie
 
Lost Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura County, California Republic
Oddometer: 3,162
Awesome Bobo!

All the little details I left out, now we might have ourselves a somewhat complete DIY...

I don't remember having that many tools, but I'm sure you're correct. There was a hatchet involved at some point in my work. Oh, wait the was my rear output gasket on the R...

Bolt sequence? Torque values? What are those? I used The Force.

Also I just took the side stand off, since I long ago broke and cut off my side stand switch I didn't even think to just move it.

If my engine lasts another 40,000 miles, the next clutch change will go fast, just like Bobo says...









GSranger,


Good theory, but it seemed to me like material had come off the part where it's not polished.
Yes, it was all cleaned as good as needed.



__________________
Photography for me is not about recreating what I saw through
the viewfinder but to show people the way I want to see the world.

LostRider.com
Lost Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 05:45 PM   #40
JRWooden
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: The great state of confusion
Oddometer: 4,204
Thank you Bobo!

GSRanger:

Yeah ... I've been puzzling over that pattern...
Bobo said that when he took his clutch apart only a few ounces of oil was lost? Would that be enough to submerge the plates in oil that is a "deep" as indicated?

I am no sure how oil is (or is not) scavanged out of the clutch area...
JRWooden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 05:57 PM   #41
Lost Rider OP
Roadie
 
Lost Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura County, California Republic
Oddometer: 3,162
Maybe this helps JR.





__________________
Photography for me is not about recreating what I saw through
the viewfinder but to show people the way I want to see the world.

LostRider.com
Lost Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 06:55 PM   #42
JRWooden
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: The great state of confusion
Oddometer: 4,204
Thanks!

I was thinking the oil was not going to be that high, but wasn't accounting for the dipstick not being screwed in when you check the level, and that the bike would be parked on the side stand not the center stand when all this was going on ... so adding those factors together I guess that's how we get the "bathtub ring"

JRWooden screwed with this post 09-22-2010 at 07:04 PM
JRWooden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 06:39 AM   #43
ebrabaek
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Grand Valley, Colorado
Oddometer: 4,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown
Yeah, you are correct JR.

Sorry for the slacking, been riding, it's nice to see this thread coming along with good info...

From what I read, most is true... Especially about the secret stash spot!

It's an easy job, no reason to take it to a dealer IMO.

Just be sure to get the two plates that are machined with narrower teeth on first and last.
They might not be the two that have different G7 or G8 markings....

This isn't fun posting from the iPhone, when I get home I'll update with many photos...

BTW, the new clutch did well yesterday riding Engineer, Cinnamon, Black Bear, and Ophir pass!

Great writeup Chi...... How did the bike do on the last shaily rock scree before the summit of ophir.....on the ophir side???? That is one nasty section.

Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 09:39 AM   #44
GSranger
blacksheep
 
GSranger's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: graham, wa - near Mt. Rainier
Oddometer: 83
Disclaimer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
Thank you Bobo!

GSRanger:

Yeah ... I've been puzzling over that pattern...
Bobo said that when he took his clutch apart only a few ounces of oil was lost? Would that be enough to submerge the plates in oil that is a "deep" as indicated?

I am no sure how oil is (or is not) scavanged out of the clutch area...
I am NOT a BMW technician... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

Chi... I have read a LOT of your postings. I think after this thread, you may have a future as a BMW tech... maybe at your favorite dealer like.... wait.... could it be..........




Chicago BMW?!
GSranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2010, 01:32 PM   #45
Lost Rider OP
Roadie
 
Lost Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura County, California Republic
Oddometer: 3,162
Maybe I'd be a good MC tech with some proper training.


The problem with that is I make much more $ for my time as a freelance video technician that a motorcycle tech ever could, which allows me to ride more than I work... I make just enough to support my habit and give myself plenty of me time....

But then again, maybe I could help Chicago BMW turn over a new leaf and have some good customer service, or at the very least install the right parts!
__________________
Photography for me is not about recreating what I saw through
the viewfinder but to show people the way I want to see the world.

LostRider.com

Lost Rider screwed with this post 09-28-2010 at 04:31 PM
Lost Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014