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Old 09-19-2012, 11:26 PM   #301
simonpig
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
What do you mean by resettable Odo? Do you mean a Trip odo that you can reset to Zero?

78 doesn't have that data item?
It has a trip odometer that you can reset, but I think the main odometer cannot be reset to zero unless you restore to default status.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:34 PM   #302
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The thing weak thing about the 60csx is that you can't more than 500 track points in a saved track. Anymore and it just trunkates it. Annoying if you don't realize that once you're on your ride and the track just stops.

Having 200 saved tracks is nice because you can save a track at the end of the days ride, say youre on a month long trip.

Dualsporting and trailriding, 60csx is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
Only thing better with 60 over 62 is rouind 12V external power input. However 78 does have it so 78 is better than 60/76.

As far ad dirtbiking.dualsporting, how many saved tracks do you need? 76 holds 20 x 500, 78 holds 200 x 2,000.

78Cx can still be found at WestMarine.com for $150 when on sale which is often.

I promote Dual Sport events and 80% of entrants use 60/76. I have only seen a very few 78 or Montana.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
What do you mean by resettable Odo? Do you mean a Trip odo that you can reset to Zero?

78 doesn't have that data item?
Throught the software features of the 78 where the same as the 62? Just different external case . My 62s has a resettable trip computer plus several othe resetable features. Used them several times in the last week.

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Old 09-20-2012, 01:31 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by djborden View Post
Throught the software features of the 78 where the same as the 62? Just different external case . My 62s has a resettable trip computer plus several othe resetable features. Used them several times in the last week.

David
The 76 and 78 series units are classified as "Marine" units.

The 62 uses a quad helix antenna. The 78 uses a patch antenna, which has very good reception as long as the unit is held flat. The quad helix antenna improves reception and is better suited to holding the GPS in a more upright vertical position.

daryl

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Old 09-20-2012, 01:44 AM   #305
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The thing weak thing about the 60csx is that you can't more than 500 track points in a saved track. Anymore and it just trunkates it. Annoying if you don't realize that once you're on your ride and the track just stops.

Having 200 saved tracks is nice because you can save a track at the end of the days ride, say youre on a month long trip.

Dualsporting and trailriding, 60csx is fine.
The 62/78 series allows up to 200 named stored tracks, each with up to 10,000 points. The 60Cx had a maximum track point capacity for all tracks of 10,000 points, and a maximum of 20 stored tracks, each with no more than 500 points. A track 200 miles long with 500 points is less detailed in shape, than a 200 mile track with 10,000 points.

daryl

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Old 09-20-2012, 02:58 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
What do you mean by resettable Odo? Do you mean a Trip odo that you can reset to Zero?

78 doesn't have that data item?
The new gps units require a unit reset to reset the "odometer" but they still have an easily reset "trip odometer". Fortunately the unit reset on modern Garmins does not lose very much in the way of settings, or anything in the way of user data like routes/tracks/etc so a reset is not a bad idea once in a while.

So essentially, if you want an actual odometer reset, a unit reset is the way to go on the 62/78/Oregon/Dakota/Colorado/Montana.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:59 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Cattledog1969 View Post
I was told that the Garmin 60csx is better than the 62 for dirtbiking/dualsporting. I was also told that the 60csx is no longer in production. Is there any truth to this???
Its hard to compare the units from memory when you "upgrade" but I recently had both my 60 and 62 go out and so about the same time I got replacement units for them both back in the mail, downloaded the exact same maps and have been comparing them side by side trying to be objective. Here some thoughts.

1. No question the 60 is more rugged. Water gets in the 62 easier. Rubber flaps don't close as well. Water killed both my units but it killed the 60 after years and 62 after months. The screen material is tougher on the 60 - doesn't scratch as easily and of course the rubber on the 62 doesn't hold up near as well as the hard plastic on the 60. I do like the feel of the rubber though.

2. The 60 is faster - responds much quicker to zooming out, zooming in - no comparison! My guess is the 62 is probably "technically" faster but has more colors, more screen detail etc and the bottom line is it is much slower.

3. On battery power alone with a vibey dirt bike both units will lose power from the battery and the screen will fade away. The 62 starts out better (I think because of a tighter battery compartment) but gets progressively worse and the 60 lasts longer.

4. Of course the 60 has the option of powering it from a 4 pin connector which works off road and in the rain etc. The 62's mini USB connector is extremely fragile in the serious dirt bike world. It should never be used in the rain. Interestingly I fried my 62 from rain getting in the mini USB connector. Afterwards there was a greenish copper color on that connector and I used a 500 in the intern time. I immiediately wrecked that unit I believe from connecting it to my greenish colored mini USB connector. It was a legitimate $55 US dollar (purchased in Thailand - knock off for $5/OEM for $55) Garmin cable. Curious if anyone has thoughts on that.

5. The 62 can ONLY be used with basecamp where as the 60 can be used with BOTH basecamp and mapsource. I still find mapsource much easier to work with when building, cutting, pasting trails that are not on any existing maps.

6. A big pet peave I have with the 62 that may just be the way I have it set up is it doesn't tell me the name of a street, waypoint, POI when I put the cursor on it like my 60 does.

Overall I find it takes alot more button pushes and scrolling to do the same thing on the 62 that I do on the 60. I would say the 62 can do a lot more things than the 60 but what the 60 does it does better, and more intuitively. To me the best of both worlds would be the 60CSx with the 3 axis compass and the ability to have 200 tracks... but of course 20 tracks on the 60 is more than 200 on the 62 as the 62 saves everything.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:58 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
Overall I find it takes alot more button pushes and scrolling to do the same thing on the 62 that I do on the 60. I would say the 62 can do a lot more things than the 60 but what the 60 does it does better, and more intuitively. To me the best of both worlds would be the 60CSx with the 3 axis compass and the ability to have 200 tracks... but of course 20 tracks on the 60 is more than 200 on the 62 as the 62 saves everything.
I agree with a lot of what you say, especially in regards to the USB power connector as a power source. I blew my Oregon and Nuvi 780 within 12 hours through the same wet Garmin power cable.

I wouldn't say "20 tracks on the 60 is more than 200 on the 62 as the 62 saves everything." Since when was saving tracks a bad thing? The 62 can be configured to save tracks daily, automatically, and saved tracks do not lose detail as they do on the 60/76. Tracks can easily be archived/restored on the unit as well.

It's possible that maps display more slowly on the 62, but you can load so many more maps individually, and create many Profiles which save the map settings so as to make it really easy to switch between those maps. (If you used the same mapset on the 60 and 62, in one gmapsupp.img file, that could cause slowdowns)

The 60/76 requires all supplemental maps to be loaded at once into the file called gmapsupp.img - a real time waster imho.

The 60/76 has no onboard ram at all, where the 62/78 have 1.7 gigabytes.

There are many other advantages to a 62/78 that you may not need or want, but there is no way I would ever go back to a 60/76 as it simply isn't good enough any more, for me, anyway. Of course you need to get out of the 60 mindset to learn the advantages of the 62.

Oh, and as long as you're careful, you can use MapSource with a 62. The question to me is, why? Aside from it being easier to use because it doesn't have the advanced features of BaseCamp, there's not a whole lot to say about it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:50 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlh62c View Post
The 62/78 series allows up to 200 named stored tracks, each with up to 10,000 points. The 60Cx had a maximum track point capacity for all tracks of 10,000 points, and a maximum of 20 stored tracks, each with no more than 500 points. A track 200 miles long with 500 points is less detailed in shape, than a 200 mile track with 10,000 points.

daryl
Stick an 8GB card in the x-models and turn on "Log tracks to data card". Let it wrap all day long for months/years on end, and you've still got all the tracks there.

Just need a computer to view them.

Every trackpoint I've ever dropped is still on the memory card, that folder's probably 80MB by now.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #310
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Stick an 8GB card in the x-models and turn on "Log tracks to data card". Let it wrap all day long for months/years on end, and you've still got all the tracks there.

Just need a computer to view them.

Every trackpoint I've ever dropped is still on the memory card, that folder's probably 80MB by now.
On the 62/78's, you can use the SD card to store your maps, trip photos, bike maintenance manuals and more. You can also install Basecamp and run it from there. I abuse my 62s as a USB drive.

daryl

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #311
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Other than the solid fact that the 60 is more rugged than the 62 and will take more physical abuse, I'm sure you guys are right and many of the things I don't like on the 62 are because I don't understand them. So here are some questions and thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
I agree with a lot of what you say, especially in regards to the USB power connector as a power source. I blew my Oregon and Nuvi 780 within 12 hours through the same wet Garmin power cable.

I wouldn't say "20 tracks on the 60 is more than 200 on the 62 as the 62 saves everything." Since when was saving tracks a bad thing? The 62 can be configured to save tracks daily, automatically, and saved tracks do not lose detail as they do on the 60/76. Tracks can easily be archived/restored on the unit as well.

When I blaze a new trail in the jungle and know I am doing as such, I set my unit up to record at the maximum level of detail and at the end of that hard work, I'm intentional about saving that track and I've never had one of those tracks fail on the 60.
3 days ago I just had a major track fail on the 62. When I plug the unit into base camp I get a garmin error message saying that track failed and can't be loaded. I do have what appear to be thousands of tracks I don't want.
Looking at my 62 series tracks on base camp possibly I have everything I wanted from the 60, its just that I have thousands of other things I don't want.
It reminds me of a movie where a police chief was putting tons of pressure on a couple of his homicide detectives to find the perp in a sniper assasination at a crowded football game. He was furious when they had 0 leads, but then the detectives got a break that made them 99% sure the sniper was in the stadium and probably had most likely purchased a ticket in his own name.
The next time the angry chief called they told him they now did in fact have some suspects - they just didn't tell him they had 92,830 suspects!
0 leads is bad; 10,000 leads is almost as bad!
It's possible that maps display more slowly on the 62, but you can load so many more maps individually, and create many Profiles which save the map settings so as to make it really easy to switch between those maps. (If you used the same mapset on the 60 and 62, in one gmapsupp.img file, that could cause slowdowns)

All I know on my comparison is that I recently loaded 3 sets of maps on both my 60 and 62 from the same computer at the same time. Malsing maps (Malaysia/Singapore), Malfree maps (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore) and an Indonesian set.
After doing that, the 60 will zoom in, zoom out display detail from 2-3 times as fast. The 60 also lets me move the cursor around and as I hit streets, waypoints and POI's it tells me the name which is something superhelpful to me.
The 62 doesn't display the names like that but rather at the top of the screen gives me the coordinates.

On this 2nd issue I'm guessing maybe I have the 62 set up wrong and it could do what the 60 says? It does hilight another issue though... while you guys have been extremely helpful on this site helping a "technotard" as myself figure out some of these issues I didn't need near as much help on the 60 as it was simpler; and of course the reason I got a gsp in the first place is I don't like having to ask other people for help and directions!

Seriously I realize it has been good at the same time to stretch my brain!

The 60/76 requires all supplemental maps to be loaded at once into the file called gmapsupp.img - a real time waster imho.

The 60/76 has no onboard ram at all, where the 62/78 have 1.7 gigabytes.

My "dummies" point here... bottom line I have all the maps I need on my 60 and its so much faster as I said before. How it manages to be so fast with no ram I don't know... I just know it is and based on this criteria alone I'd chose the super fast unit with 0 ram over a slow as molasses unit with 100 terrabytes of ram! (BTW I don't really know what I just said!)

There are many other advantages to a 62/78 that you may not need or want, but there is no way I would ever go back to a 60/76 as it simply isn't good enough any more, for me, anyway. Of course you need to get out of the 60 mindset to learn the advantages of the 62. I agree with you on that last point.

Oh, and as long as you're careful, you can use MapSource with a 62. The question to me is, why? Aside from it being easier to use because it doesn't have the advanced features of BaseCamp, there's not a whole lot to say about it.

Personally to me, being easier to use is worth a lot! I've recently gotten used to some features on basecamp that I appreciate and recently find myself using both.

Heres a scenario where I'm still using mapsource I'll throw out there and you can tell me if I'd be better off using just basecamp.

Wife's got the 60 and so I'll be out with the 62 in the city and the jungle and getting back to the computer hook it up to see my maps and how my project of interlinking mountain jungle tracks is going.

Basecamp will display the mass of spagetti that is all my tracks but I'll zoom in on the part of the map I know I care about and want to keep and then click on the track (though there may be several on top of each other) where I want to save it.
I copy and paste it into a fress, clean map source map and immiediately cut out all the parts of the track I don't want to keep. I then save it with a logical name that helps me organize it. Going back to basecamp I'll delete the entire track and bring in the new saved part with a logical name. Before bringing it back to basecamp, I may attach it to another trail/track in the same vicinity where they overalp.
I also like mapsource for printing maps and just viewing on the large screen areas around the track. A super simple feature in mapsource for this that I still haven't figured out in basecamp is the easy ability in map source to pick 1.) zoom level and 2.) detail level. I often want a blow up of an area but with out lots of detail other than my own waypoints and that's uber easy in mapsource and I've been wondering how to do that for years in basecamp!

Also if I haven't communicated it clearly, I really am super grateful for all of you guys' help, pointers and insight!
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:28 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
When I blaze a new trail in the jungle and know I am doing as such, I set my unit up to record at the maximum level of detail and at the end of that hard work, I'm intentional about saving that track and I've never had one of those tracks fail on the 60.

If you save your tracks at the highest level of detail, how do you use them again on the 60 with its 500 track point limit?

0 leads is bad; 10,000 leads is almost as bad!

True, but if you did a little house cleaning you might be better off.

All I know on my comparison is that I recently loaded 3 sets of maps on both my 60 and 62 from the same computer at the same time. Malsing maps (Malaysia/Singapore), Malfree maps (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore) and an Indonesian set.

It sounds like you did load those maps into one gmapsupp.img file so I stand by my argument that you need to use the 62 differently from the 60 if you want it to work as it should. I have no issue with the redraw speed on my 62S, but then I don't have a 60 here to compare to.

After doing that, the 60 will zoom in, zoom out display detail from 2-3 times as fast. The 60 also lets me move the cursor around and as I hit streets, waypoints and POI's it tells me the name which is something superhelpful to me.
The 62 doesn't display the names like that but rather at the top of the screen gives me the coordinates.

I can't really comment on the above since it's very dependent on the mapset and try as I might, I can't get my map screens to redraw slowly, but then I only have one map enabled in each profile so the gps is not being forced to load multiple map layers.

My "dummies" point here... bottom line I have all the maps I need on my 60 and its so much faster as I said before. How it manages to be so fast with no ram I don't know... I just know it is and based on this criteria alone I'd chose the super fast unit with 0 ram over a slow as molasses unit with 100 terrabytes of ram! (BTW I don't really know what I just said!)

The 60 has no ram, but you obviously have a MicroSD card in it. My point was just a comparison between the units.

There are many other advantages to a 62/78 that you may not need or want, but there is no way I would ever go back to a 60/76 as it simply isn't good enough any more, for me, anyway. Of course you need to get out of the 60 mindset to learn the advantages of the 62. I agree with you on that last point.

Personally to me, being easier to use is worth a lot! I've recently gotten used to some features on basecamp that I appreciate and recently find myself using both.

Heres a scenario where I'm still using mapsource I'll throw out there and you can tell me if I'd be better off using just basecamp.

Wife's got the 60 and so I'll be out with the 62 in the city and the jungle and getting back to the computer hook it up to see my maps and how my project of interlinking mountain jungle tracks is going.

Basecamp will display the mass of spagetti that is all my tracks but I'll zoom in on the part of the map I know I care about and want to keep and then click on the track (though there may be several on top of each other) where I want to save it.

You need to learn a bit more about BaseCamp if you're still seeing a "mass of spaghetti" in your screen. You need to create folders and List folders so you only see the data you want to see at any given time. The reason you're seeing the spaghetti is that you're thinking Mapsource while using BaseCamp. There are lots of videos in the BaseCamp help files. You would benefit from checking those out.
See comments above.

One more thing I forgot about BaseCamp - with BC, you can see the maps on the gps even if the maps aren't installed on the computer when the gps is connected. This works really well on the 62/78 series but is as slow as molasses in Winter on the 60 because of its USB 1.1 connector.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:59 AM   #313
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rickypanecatyl

I’m having trouble sorting out your questions from your thoughts in your post. I hope this helps to answer your questions. I’ve never had a 60, my 62s replaced a Delorme PN40.

Regarding zoom levels and displaying street names on the 62c, You can set the zoom level by going to the ‘Map’ menu, then scroll down and select ‘Advanced Map Setup - Text Size, Zoom, etc’. I have ‘Street Label’ set to ‘Auto’.

If you double click on a track in Basecamp, a properties windows will appear. The index numbers in this window are your track points. Selecting the first one, an orange circle should appear at that point on the map. As you select each index number, the orange circle should move along the track. If you double click on any index number, BC will zoom in on that point. You can use the properties window to delete any single point or a sequenced group of points. Holding down the ‘Shift’ key and selecting your points will allow you to select a group of points, which can be removed from the track with the press of the ‘Delete’ key.

You can also use the ‘Insert’, ‘Move Point’, ‘Erase’ and ‘Divide’ buttons at the top of BC’s screen too. These will become usable when the track you wish to modify has been selected.

On the 62 series, the track index numbers in BC can’t go over 10,000 points for a single track or it will get truncated when it’s displayed on the gps.

To join tracks in Basecamp, select the tracks you wish to join in the window displaying the track names. Or you can select the tracks within the map window. Then right click on your mouse and a menu will pop up. Select 'Advanced', then select 'Join The Selected Tracks'. The order in which you select them is important and make sure their headed in the same direction. Select them in the order in which you wish to travel. If using different track colors, the resulting track will take the color of the first track selected.

Hope this helps!
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:29 AM   #314
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Thanks for the help guys! Can I ask 3 more questions - I'll keep them seperate from my comments!

1. On mapsource when viewing the map you have 2 drop down menu's right next to each other; [scale] & [level of detail]. If you change the "scale" from say 1" = 1 mile to 1" = 10 miles and keep the detail level at medium the displayed detail automatically changes, but you can easily override that by changing the detail level by from least to most.
Is there a way to do that on basecamp?

2. As I already mentioned, I loaded the exact 3 same maps on both my 62 and 60. A big difference between them is as I move the cursor from where I am to other places on the map, the 60 will tell me the name of a street, POI or Waypoint as I hover over it. The 62 wont do that but instead gives me the lat/long coordinates instead. Anyone know why it does that? In the city I prefer the way the 60 does it; there are times I like the info the 62 gives in the jungle (calling in my coordinates to someone else - I work with a lot of SF guys and it always seems cooler as a civilian to read off coordinates rather than tell them you are 3.86 KM 294.3 NW of McDonalds! ) but I can usually get that on the 60 by not touching a street, feature, waypoint or poi. It'd be really nice to know how to switch between those styles if indeed both units were able to do both.

3. Clicking menu on the 60 gives me the set up option to orientant the map track up vs north up cutting off at a level I chose. So say in an unkown city with lots of roads and turns I like the unit to track up below 800 meter scale but then above that orientate the map north up. Driving across West Texas (not a lot of action going on there) I may have it set to switch between track up to north up at 20 KM scale instead of 1.2 KM scale.
I can't seem to find anything similar on the 62 - just the option to pick track up or north up but not at which point it changes. (My 62 does switch from track up to north up automatically it seems somewhere around 80 KM scale but there' s no where I can see where to do that.)
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:56 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
3. Clicking menu on the 60 gives me the set up option to orientant the map track up vs north up cutting off at a level I chose. I can't seem to find anything similar on the 62 - just the option to pick track up or north up but not at which point it changes. (My 62 does switch from track up to north up automatically it seems somewhere around 80 KM scale but there' s no where I can see where to do that.)
Not an answer to your question just a bitch.

This is my main complaint with Garmin, when they come out with a replacement unit 60/76 to 62/78 they don't just make it bigger & better with more features and capability (like 20 - 500 point tracks to 200 - 2,000 point tracks) they change or delete things that current users like and have no complaint with (like comment above).

This is one of the main reasons why I have bought more of discontinued units rather than jumping on a new model. In my case their marketing people should have a little more clout over their engineering people. Better is the enemy of good!
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