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Old 09-13-2010, 06:56 AM   #46
datchew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianK
Do people really PLAN on crashing?
Yes. Actually I do. At least, I plan FOR crashing. Same reason I put on stretch kevlar, cordura, and a helmet and boots and gloves. Mitigation.

in this case, cylinder damage mitigation.

I think it's important to note that for GS and G/S, you PLAN to go offroad and slide out or fall over now and then. With street bikes, you're not really treating them the same way so likelihood for needing them is greatly reduced.

Also, not all crash bars are the same. I look at some styles and see why people say "they'll bend the frame."
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:41 PM   #47
Big John Sny
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Here are the ones that came on my bike

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Old 09-13-2010, 01:50 PM   #48
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Mine were free....

came on my R100RS courtesty of the original owner....I am the second owner.

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Old 09-13-2010, 02:22 PM   #49
Oddbawl
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http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/crashbars/index.htm

"Over the years I have seen several wrecks where the cylinder has been broken off. In all wrecks I tried to ascertain all of the details possible. In all, but one, of the "snapped off cylinder" wrecks, one thing was in common. The bike first went down and slid. It "hit" something and high sided and flipped over to the other side and snapped the cylinder off. These bikes all had crash bars. Crash bars cause cylinders to get snapped off and riders to sustain greater injury"
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:38 PM   #50
datchew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddbawl
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/crashbars/index.htm

"Over the years I have seen several wrecks where the cylinder has been broken off. In all wrecks I tried to ascertain all of the details possible. In all, but one, of the "snapped off cylinder" wrecks, one thing was in common. The bike first went down and slid. It "hit" something and high sided and flipped over to the other side and snapped the cylinder off. These bikes all had crash bars. Crash bars cause cylinders to get snapped off and riders to sustain greater injury"
Duane's an entertaining guy.

Pretty serious generalization and then leap to cause-effect going on there.
Not digging at you Oddbawl, but alot of Duane's stuff is questionable very often.

How does a crash bar cause the bike to highside? That's what I don't get.

Let's say the above was documented, validated, etc. visualize with me for a sec.
Bike goes down and slides on 1 side. wheels first, seat first, doesn't matter, the cylinder grinding into the earth is almost at the center of mass on the horizontal plane as it screeches along.

In this position, anything that comes in the path has to:
1 - miss hitting all the other crap in the way in order to contact the crashbar first.
2 - have alot of force and leverage to flip the whole bike by hitting only the crashbar.

I just don't see it.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #51
Sniper X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datchew
Duane's an entertaining guy.

Pretty serious generalization and then leap to cause-effect going on there.
Not digging at you Oddbawl, but alot of Duane's stuff is questionable very often.

How does a crash bar cause the bike to highside? That's what I don't get.

Let's say the above was documented, validated, etc. visualize with me for a sec.
Bike goes down and slides on 1 side. wheels first, seat first, doesn't matter, the cylinder grinding into the earth is almost at the center of mass on the horizontal plane as it screeches along.

In this position, anything that comes in the path has to:
1 - miss hitting all the other crap in the way in order to contact the crashbar first.
2 - have alot of force and leverage to flip the whole bike by hitting only the crashbar.

I just don't see it.
Yeah, sounds like one guys opinion to me too. Like the guys who swear they are better off NOT wearing a helmet because it makes them not be able to see or hear well enough to avoid a crash, or that in every case a rider fell with a helemt on it broke his neck.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:02 PM   #52
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Ok, the "don't rum em" team wins ...........now send me all the crash bars you don't want anymore .
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:19 PM   #53
Oddbawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datchew
Duane's an entertaining guy.

Pretty serious generalization and then leap to cause-effect going on there.
Not digging at you Oddbawl, but alot of Duane's stuff is questionable very often.

How does a crash bar cause the bike to highside? That's what I don't get.

Let's say the above was documented, validated, etc. visualize with me for a sec.
Bike goes down and slides on 1 side. wheels first, seat first, doesn't matter, the cylinder grinding into the earth is almost at the center of mass on the horizontal plane as it screeches along.

In this position, anything that comes in the path has to:
1 - miss hitting all the other crap in the way in order to contact the crashbar first.
2 - have alot of force and leverage to flip the whole bike by hitting only the crashbar.

I just don't see it.
I could see a highside more likely if the bars were proud enough for it to grab traction more easily as in not leaned over enough if you will... now like he says, hit a bit of a bump, the bike doesn't need as much to stand up again. It makes sense to me. Depends on the speed, and the crash bar. Dunno, he's got more experience with it than me. Too many factors to take into account really.
Me, I don't run them because I rather scuff a cover than crease a frame.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:14 PM   #54
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2 - have alot of force and leverage to flip the whole bike by hitting only the crashbar.


Exactamaly.......
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:41 PM   #55
Oddbawl
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It wouldn't need much to flip it up enough to grab an edge of tire tread though. I think that is what he was getting at.
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Oddbawl screwed with this post 09-13-2010 at 05:51 PM
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:13 PM   #56
Beemerboff
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In my experience you dont have to be going very fast to highside, particularly on an airhead which doesnt go down that far anyway.

But most of my offs on my airheds have been at parking lot speeds, feet slipping at a stop, etc, etc.

And at low speed / stand still the crash bar does the job it is designed to do, without showing much in the way of damage.

And who knows how many stripped cylinder studs were partly caused by a fall sometime ?

I would prefer my bikes without them, but I can see the merit in them too - it is just a choice folks make.

And with the thin / weak pattern covers which wont survive a fall of the sidestand they do make sense.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:16 PM   #57
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These babies are extremely stout, and I've no doubt this little bike could flip as graphically described by those with greater knowledge than I.......
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:00 PM   #58
Oddbawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danedg


These babies are extremely stout, and I've no doubt this little bike could flip as graphically described by those with greater knowledge than I.......
Meh. Who knows. keep posting those pics, it keeps the fire under my ass to get mine sorted...
BTW, I've got a set of those crash bars for a /2 if anybody wants them, can't remember condition I can look tmw. They came in a box of bits with my /2
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:43 PM   #59
fishkens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingbear
I will using the Krauser guards .. when I get the new side
stand from Carl.
Will you sell the sidestand to me? I hear they're in limited supply.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:07 PM   #60
datchew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddbawl
BTW, I've got a set of those crash bars for a /2 if anybody wants them, can't remember condition I can look tmw. They came in a box of bits with my /2
PM sent. I have 1 and 1 badly damaged. Still toying with the idea of putting them on.
Being the supreme poseur that I am, it'll come down to looks.


I think I misinterpreted earlier. Sounds more like you meant (or Duane meant) that a bump or catching on something in a turn could cause a loss of traction or whatever and send you into a high side.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative. At least not right now. Maybe tomorrow.
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