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Old 12-09-2004, 04:44 PM   #1
meat popsicle OP
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Using P-Tex candles for bodywork repair?

Just curious if anyone out there has experience with P-Tex candles, used for repairing ski/snowboard bases. They are fairly easy and inexpensive to use - and I thought (after hearing Ricky's suggestion - thanks for the idea bud! - commie DVDs in the mail ) that they might be good for minor repairs to plastic bodywork on bikes.

I have some fresh road rash on my 03 KTM 640 Adv's tank and I am considering getting some candles and repairing the scrapes/gouges. Probably include sanding off the rough stuff (as little material as possible), then filling in gouges with the P-Tex material.

Wondering about issues like longevity of the P-Tex, will it stay bonded to the tank plastics, and does it accept paint or maybe a primer? Here is TOKO, the manufacturer of the leading P-Tex product's webpage:

http://www.tokowax.com/

More soon: just wanted to post to see if anyone had tried this or similar, or had experience with P-Tex use.

EDIT: THE TANK IS NOT METAL!!!
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 12-09-2004 at 06:27 PM
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Old 12-09-2004, 04:58 PM   #2
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Sadly, I have spent to much time with p-tex.. I've been teching for 9 years and have in that time put in 2 feet of edge, replaced 6 inches of core material, to many t bolts to count, etc...

my feeling on ptex on metal isnt a great one... if the tank is cold the p-tex wont bond and even if it does it is susceptible to vibration.

I would consider using 2 part epoxy with a little graphite powder mixed in to make it pliable. I'd take the tank off and set it up in such a manner that the epoxy "puddles" on the spot. -Build a dam of duct tape to keep the epoxy where you need it.

you might wanna order a Base File Radial / Bastard File to cut down the epoxy without touching the paint. . . you can find them on that site you mentioned under edge repair.

dp
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dp63130
my feeling on ptex on metal isnt a great one... if the tank is cold the p-tex wont bond and even if it does it is susceptible to vibration.

you might wanna order a Base File Radial / Bastard File to cut down the epoxy without touching the paint. . . you can find them on that site you mentioned under edge repair.

dp
oopsie, my tank isnt metal - its some sort of high tech plastic stuff, maybe a composite - lemme go find out.

thanks for the tip on the bastard file... i will look into it
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:20 PM   #4
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Epoxy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dp63130
Sadly, I have spent to much time with p-tex.. I've been teching for 9 years and have in that time put in 2 feet of edge, replaced 6 inches of core material, to many t bolts to count, etc...

my feeling on ptex on metal isnt a great one... if the tank is cold the p-tex wont bond and even if it does it is susceptible to vibration.

I would consider using 2 part epoxy with a little graphite powder mixed in to make it pliable. I'd take the tank off and set it up in such a manner that the epoxy "puddles" on the spot. -Build a dam of duct tape to keep the epoxy where you need it.

you might wanna order a Base File Radial / Bastard File to cut down the epoxy without touching the paint. . . you can find them on that site you mentioned under edge repair.

dp
I agree with the epoxy. You can get some fine powder to form what is called fairing compound when mixed with the epoxy. ( Check out the WEST SYSTEM ) Much better idea than the P-Tex. Can sand by hand nicely.
I would use wax paper though instead of duct tape. Epoxy will not stick to it. Similair to using a mold release.
Good luck,
DD
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Different Drummer
I agree with the epoxy. You can get some fine powder to form what is called fairing compound when mixed with the epoxy. ( Check out the WEST SYSTEM ) Much better idea than the P-Tex. Can sand by hand nicely.
I would use wax paper though instead of duct tape. Epoxy will not stick to it. Similair to using a mold release.
Good luck,
DD

ARGH!!!


The Tank is NOT Metal...
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Old 12-09-2004, 07:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle

ARGH!!!


The Tank is NOT Metal...

I fix my PLASTICtank of my 640 with a rod of "plastic welding material",,I don't remenber the proper name but i can ask and it bold to the surface like it was part of it from day one,,in fact alex frits(sorry if i miss spell) repair a bunch of broken one(not just rash but Crack) with exelent results,,you do need to use a very focal heat sourse and warm up the plastic before you bond them togheter...
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn
I fix my PLASTICtank of my 640 with a rod of "plastic welding material",,I don't remenber the proper name but i can ask and it bold to the surface like it was part of it from day one,,in fact alex frits(sorry if i miss spell) repair a bunch of broken one(not just rash but Crack) with exelent results,,you do need to use a very focal heat sourse and warm up the plastic before you bond them togheter...
thank you Ricky! I was beginning to wonder there

Plastic Welding Material sounds more probable than the P-Tex candles, probably accepts paint too (I dunno if P-Tex will but I can test this). Was it difficult? Require special equipment? One of the appealing things about P-Tex is you can get by with a hot iron (some carbon contamination but is the gun worth it?).

I looked around a bit at this plastic welding... BIG field! I don't know were to start but I did find this stuff:

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=164855
Forum Discussion - good stuff with the following links:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41592
Cheap Plastic Welder - think it requires compressed air...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41602
Plastic Welding Rods

http://www.plasticweldingschool.org/tech/techtips.php
Tech Tips

http://www.plasticsmag.com/ta.asp?aid=3750
More Tips

http://www.stanmech.com/HowToWeldPlastics.htm
How To Page

That should do it for now, back to you Ricky!
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Old 12-09-2004, 09:01 PM   #8
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plastic. i love plastic.

well if it aint metal.. get yer p-tex. not extruded p-tex the cheaper stuff that burns easy with a small propane torch.

Clean the tank with rubbing al-key-hal let dry then warm the tank with a blowdryer or heat gun and drip away. Some carbon will form at the end of the burning p-tex but you can usually regulate how much forms by keeping the propane torch near....

when the p-tex is still clear and extremely hot take a steel scraper or a p-tex roller* and smash it into the scratch while gently heating it with the propane torch. -that way the plastics have a chance to bond. after that.. its all about dressing it with the file to smooth it out.

if you have a large scratch its nice to make a little inverted shelf something like this --/ \-- so the p-tex has some where to latch on to...

just my 2cents
d


*ptex roller: http://www.tognar.com/base_repair_to...e.html#SVT-PTR
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Old 12-09-2004, 09:33 PM   #9
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You should also consult
http://www.machinedesign.com/asp/vie...ath=&myCatID=2

Found by searching on http://www.machinedesign.com/ for plastic
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dp63130
well if it aint metal.. get yer p-tex. not extruded p-tex the cheaper stuff that burns easy with a small propane torch.
So not the Toko stuff? That web page you linked below has some candles and strips (BIG THANKS for the link as I couldn't find much thru searches...); some say the strips are better - you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dp63130
Clean the tank with rubbing al-key-hal let dry then warm the tank with a blowdryer or heat gun and drip away. Some carbon will form at the end of the burning p-tex but you can usually regulate how much forms by keeping the propane torch near....

when the p-tex is still clear and extremely hot take a steel scraper or a p-tex roller* and smash it into the scratch while gently heating it with the propane torch. -that way the plastics have a chance to bond. after that.. its all about dressing it with the file to smooth it out.

if you have a large scratch its nice to make a little inverted shelf something like this --/ \-- so the p-tex has some where to latch on to...


just my 2cents
d
Thank you for the techniques! sorry if I dredged up any painful memories... the info is worth ALOT more than 2 centavos amigo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dp63130
WOOT! great link!
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
You should also consult
http://www.machinedesign.com/asp/vie...ath=&myCatID=2

Found by searching on http://www.machinedesign.com/ for plastic
Thanks Frank, the ultimate tool... , but that sounds like an expensive piece of equipment! Kinda looking for a layman's how-to thingey.

Now there are two ideas floating here: one is the ski/snowboard base repair technique and the plastic welding repair technique. One important thing I don't know about either is if you can paint them after curing...

Good info on the base repair idea on dp63130's link:


"It's pretty easy to repair gouges and dings on ski or snowboard bases, but the p-tex repair material you use will determine how long your repairs will last. Soft materials (like drip candles) make fast and easy fixes, but wear quickly. Harder materials (like repair ribbon or techo stix) are applied with an iron or pistol, but make repairs as durable as your original base. And when a gouge exposes steel edge material or fiberglass, use copolymer string because p-tex usually won't bond in these cases. "

And an internal link to Tips:
http://www.tognar.com/bsreptips.html

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Old 12-10-2004, 08:23 AM   #12
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Soooooooo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle

ARGH!!!


The Tank is NOT Metal...
Calm down! I posted that reply prior to knowing the tank is not metal.
By the way, the epoxy technique will work nicely on your tank as well. Very durable, easy to work ( sand shape etc ) and will take paint to boot.
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Old 12-10-2004, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Different Drummer
Calm down! I posted that reply prior to knowing the tank is not metal.
By the way, the epoxy technique will work nicely on your tank as well. Very durable, easy to work ( sand shape etc ) and will take paint to boot.
Thanks Drummer Boy,

I had just posted the reply that the tank was not metal then came back to find your reply... just being silly. Thanks for the tip that the epoxy will work with a plastic tank but I would like to try more native materials first.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:34 AM   #14
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So P-Tex is made of:

http://www.custom-shop.com/pages/p-tex.htm
"Snowboard and ski bases are produced from ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene, a dense, abrasion resistant thermoplastic with low friction properites. Base material grades vary slightly in their density and additives, but all are capable of absorbing wax, and differ from regular UHMW because they are specially treated for bonding with epoxy resin. P-tex, Isospeed, and Durasurf are the 3 main brand names in the industry, and all are high quality parts, used by most major manufacturers."

Polyethylene eh? Did a search around the web and there are paintable polyethylenes - but it might depend on the additives. I think it will require a test.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:37 AM   #15
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Note: before you run out and buy candles, read here:

http://www.tognar.com/base_repair_t...ge.html#SVT-PTR

the candles create a softer less permanent material. i am looking into the strips that are the strongest repair material according to the above source.

also, look around their webpage. lots of stuff that could be useful for this and other projects. thanks again dp... !!!
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