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Old 09-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #16
jamesbrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mookymoo
Is the paper filter completely straight as a die?

I had some overheating issues a year ago - blamed the thermo-switch.
Turns out Id lost a lot of coolant, but the reservoir level was constant (rad cap not working properly).

Oil level was fine. No emulsion in oil. Very little evidence whatsoever. The only hint (though I didnt realise at the time) was some barely-perceptible weave in the paper filter. (I removed it to put in the stainless for the duration of the trip I was doing). In the end, I had to replace the water pump seal on the footpath outside the KTM dealership in Toulouse. I was losing about 500ml of coolant per day of hot/hard riding - but still no emulsion in the oil.
No coolant loss since seal/shaft replaced.

Chatting to the mechanic there, they say they had a similar issue with a superduke. Loosing coolant, but no evidence in the oil. In the end, they sent an oil sample to Austria for analysis, came back positive for traces of coolant.

15k miles is when my seal probably went...
No residue in the crankcase vent/forward carb. area?
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:09 PM   #17
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I will report what i find out when dig a little deeper.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:14 PM   #18
Rellik
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my money's on the pump seal as well. pull off the clutch cover and look for emulsion on the inside.

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Old 09-20-2010, 05:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbrown
No residue in the crankcase vent/forward carb. area?
None.
There is always a tiny bit in the valve on the crank case breather - but I put that down to water vapour from combustion. (same as you will often see condensation on cj clutch cover)
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #20
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my 990 superduke is exhibiting the same issue albeit at a much slower rate.

I rebuild the WP 12k miles ago.

Just completed a valve adjustment. there's no sign of coolant in oil.

I'm going to do send an oil sample to blackstone to check for coolant. I also sent my radiator in for pressure testing. I had a minor leak awhile back and seal it with barleak.

can someone give me a link to write up on replacing JUST THE SEAL? someone said they used two self tapping screws to remove the seal.....
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:23 AM   #21
unkle_george
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Yes, I just drilled a tiny pilot hole first, then turned a wood screw into the seal. One on each side and that was enough to let me pull it out with a pair of vice grips. Here's a picture of the idea from google:

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Old 09-21-2010, 12:49 PM   #22
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After reading some of the posts and talking with Craig at CJ Designs i have ordered the pump rebuild kit. I will replace and report on the findings.
I did pull the clutch cover and could not see any noticeable signs of coolant.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:42 PM   #23
Just Paul
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I had the same problem mine was getting boiled away... I replaced the cap with a higher pressure cap and it fixed the issue..
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:17 AM   #24
EvilClown
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Similar problem with '06 950ADV. About every 100 miles I'll have to top off the coolant. No visual sign of external leaks. No odors. No obvious signs in the oil. Water pump's been done before but bike has 35K on it sooo...

Watching this closely as I really need to get this sorted out. The bike is addicting.

Anyone varify if CJ's is the latest and greatest water pump seal replacement yet? If not, what's the best source?

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Old 09-25-2010, 08:26 AM   #25
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Report.

After pump removal I was very surprised to see the wear on the pump shaft.
the two groves from the seal was almost as pronounced as the snap ring groves.

the oil never became milky and the oil filter seemed to stay in good condition. (aftermarket oil filter) So apparently since I typically ride for longer periods of time the bike will get up to a good operating temperature and burn off the excess coolant.
I did not notice any signs of coolant until I pulled the side cover then I could see signs of coolant residue. I would not have believed this without seeing it. I lost and filled the tank three times before pulling down so that is between 1-2 quarts of coolant that I went through.

I will post some pics of the worn shaft. CJ Designs update kit is in and ready to go.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:24 AM   #26
marcing
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I will refresh this very old topic as I have simillar problem. Coolant loose without indication to the outside. Paper oil filter looks totaly normal and no milk in the oil.
interesting test I have done - I removed radiator cap and let engine running.. After a while a massive coolant amount went out through this hole. Is it definatelly head gasket ?
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:32 AM   #27
Sumi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcing View Post
I will refresh this very old topic as I have simillar problem. Coolant loose without indication to the outside. Paper oil filter looks totaly normal and no milk in the oil.
interesting test I have done - I removed radiator cap and let engine running.. After a while a massive coolant amount went out through this hole. Is it definatelly head gasket ?
Do I get you correctly, that you were running the engine without the radiator cap on the radiator? Because that way it's normal for the coolant to come out from the radiator:)

Also, even in the event of a wp failure, it's rare that one can see milkshake directly in the oil - I mean oil from the sump or from the oil tank..

If the filter is not wavy, and you can't see milkshake on the inside of the outer clutch cover, then it's probably a faulty radiator cap. For about $15-20 it's a no brainer to change it and see if it cures the problem. They tend to fail.

Don't think it's a head gasket issue. On this very forum, I know about 2-3 bike that had a head gasket failure, and there are about 1000 bikes that have not. So it's quite rare IMO.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Sumi View Post
Do I get you correctly, that you were running the engine without the radiator cap on the radiator? Because that way it's normal for the coolant to come out from the radiator:)

Also, even in the event of a wp failure, it's rare that one can see milkshake directly in the oil - I mean oil from the sump or from the oil tank..

If the filter is not wavy, and you can't see milkshake on the inside of the outer clutch cover, then it's probably a faulty radiator cap. For about $15-20 it's a no brainer to change it and see if it cures the problem. They tend to fail.
i have replaced a radiator cap last year. I dont think that the engine indicate any overheating ( nothing abnormal- during the slow ride in the heavy traffic radiator fun will on and do the job
).
my friendly mechanic told that the faulty head gasket causing this issue because compression goes to the cooling system.
So when there is no radiator cap anr the engine is hot and running the colant start going out like from voolcano. At the same time my coolant level in reservoir filling all container... When the bike cools down the level is going down too but vert very slow.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:01 AM   #29
Sumi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcing View Post
i have replaced a radiator cap last year. I dont think that the engine indicate any overheating ( nothing abnormal- during the slow ride in the heavy traffic radiator fun will on and do the job
).
my friendly mechanic told that the faulty head gasket causing this issue because compression goes to the cooling system.
So when there is no radiator cap anr the engine is hot and running the colant start going out like from voolcano. At the same time my coolant level in reservoir filling all container... When the bike cools down the level is going down too but vert very slow.
You can tear down the engine if you want to, it's up to you:)

But!

The radiator cap is a pressure valve. When it's working normaly, it will open under pressure ( 1.4 bar ), and let coolant flow out (into the expansion tank - it's called an expansion tank, because the fluid in the cooling system expands into this). If the cap is faulty, it will open under a lower pressure, hence let more fluid expand into the expansion tank, eventualy pissing fluid out of the expansion tank overflow. When fluid cools down, it will return from the expansion tank into the radiator, but because fluid has pissed out on the overflow, this will manifest as a coolant loss.

So. when running the bike without a radiator cap (pressure valve), it's no suprise that it will piss out coolant.

Also a faulty radiator cap ( this means it can't hold the pressure ) will result in coolant pissing out on the overflow (it's almost like running it without a cap, or with a let's say half rated cap.. it open's under a lower pressure than it should).


The cap can easily fail in 1 year.

But yes, if there is a head gasket problem, that would mean that the pressure in the cooling system is way more than 1.4 bars -> pushing out the fluid from the system, into the expansion tank, and then out through the overflow. So it's quite the same symptom. But running without a radiator cap is not a way to prove this (once again, that way you have a 0.0 bar pressure valve, so not only the high pressure intruduced by the faulty head gasket will push out the coolant, but also the normal operating pressure resulting from the operating temperature will.)

So in other words, when you have a faulty head gasket, it will rase the pressure in the cooling system way over the radiator caps rated 1.4 bar valve, and the bike will be pissing coolant out. But unless you don't know if it's 1.2 bars or 3 bars in the system, you can't know for sure if the rad cap pressure holding capability went down from 1.4 bar to let's say 0.5 bar - and there is still normal pressure in the system, or if it is 3 bar pressure in the whole system due to a faulty head gasket.

There are however ways to find out if it's a head gasket issue, like attaching a bottle to the radiator's overflow and looking for gas bubbles. By the way probably IDLE rpm isn't enough to generate enough pressure to visibly blow by the 1.4 bar cap with a faulty head gasket.



Just my $0.02, but it's still easier / cheaper to try a new cap :)
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Sumi screwed with this post 06-09-2013 at 03:15 AM
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #30
marcing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumi View Post

But yes, if there is a head gasket problem, that would mean that the pressure in the cooling system is way more than 1.4 bars -> pushing out the fluid from the system, into the expansion tank, and then out through the overflow. So it's quite the same symptom. But running without a radiator cap is not a way to prove this (once again, that way you have a 0.0 bar pressure valve, so not only the high pressure intruduced by the faulty head gasket will push out the coolant, but also the normal operating pressure resulting from the operating temperature will.)

So in other words, when you have a faulty head gasket, it will rase the pressure in the cooling system way over the radiator caps rated 1.4 bar valve, and the bike will be pissing coolant out. But unless you don't know if it's 1.2 bars or 3 bars in the system, you can't know for sure if the rad cap pressure holding capability went down from 1.4 bar to let's say 0.5 bar - and there is still normal pressure in the system, or if it is 3 bar pressure in the whole system due to a faulty head gasket.

There are however ways to find out if it's a head gasket issue, like attaching a bottle to the radiator's overflow and looking for gas bubbles. By the way probably IDLE rpm isn't enough to generate enough pressure to visibly blow by the 1.4 bar cap with a faulty head gasket.

Just my $0.02, but it's still easier / cheaper to try a new cap :)
Hi.
Full description what I have done. Engine was worm and turned off.
I removed a radiator cap. Turned engine on... Expansion tank contained coolant level between min and max. Temperature was raising. Next expansion tank has been filled to the very top by coolant.
I have never seen the expansion tank to be filled so much since I have had this bike.
From the hole where radiator cap coming coolant started to blowing out with some bubbles (like air in the system)... It is simmilar to opening the champagne.
Next coolant has been taken from expansion tank so I had to top it up.
I have done a test ride today. I checked oil level before started my journey and the coolant level (it was in the middle - so between min and max).
When I have come back after 110miles oil level is still the same. Coolant level went down about 5mm in the expansion tank. During my ride I caused situation where radiator fan turned on (I was slow riding).

Is it 100% head gasket ?
Is there any way to confirm this before I will strip the engine ?
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