ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-21-2010, 04:01 PM   #1
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
1982 Virago 750 starter issues. Pics included

Bought a '82 XV750 a couple weeks ago. Got the bike looking good, runs pretty good. The starter sometimes wouldn't catch. It'd spin for a second, then grab, rattled alot, etc.. Seems pretty common.

So I went on eBay and bought the $25 repair/shim kit. Comes with an O-ring, 2 starter bolts, G clip, and a 1mm thick shim.

I removed my starter and started tearing into it. Apparently someone has already shimmed it.. Theres 3 shims that are about 1mm total thickness. So basically this starter was already "fixed" and it still has the same problem.

So that pretty well stopped me in my tracks.. I'm not sure what to do now. I'm honestly not even sure how these shims help anything? Were they located in the right spot? The diagram that came with the kit is not of much help.

It also includes a rubber o-ring spacer to use between a couple of the gears. And also specfied to flip the #2 idler gear around so the non-worn portion will now face the flywheel. Will doing these steps alone correct the issue? - It seems like the starter shims were supposed to fix the problem..but they were already in place.

BTW, I would have looked or asked on the Viragotech forum..but they still haven't activated my membership..Their site seems to have a lot of problems.


Resting against the starter is the 3 shims that were inside - that is where they were located.
The kit with the shim, o-ring, g clip and bolts are in front.

The second photo shows where the o-ring is supposed to be located.




Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #2
nella
Gnarly Adventurer
 
nella's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Oddometer: 403
Are you sure the shims you found in the tear down weren't there from stock and you are supposed to add your new shims to the stack?

edit: why don't you post the diagram that came with your shim kit, that might help.
__________________
Scott

nella screwed with this post 09-21-2010 at 04:18 PM
nella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 04:18 PM   #3
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by nella
Are you sure the shims you found in the tear down weren't there from stock and you are supposed to add your new shims to the stack?
I don't think so. Not according to the parts diagram anyways.
I think some of the "repair" kits (some from Yamaha originally), came with 3 shims. So this was likely "fixed" in the past sometime.

The starter screws had a slight round to them, and the side cover bolts were overtorqued, and one was broken..So someone had torn in here before. Doesn't look like they did anything but add the starter shims from what I can tell.

I emailed the seller of the kit, and sent him some pictures..Hopefully he can clear it up. His instructions pretty well suck for what should be a pretty simple job.

Edit: let me find the diagram..




Reading online..Some people also mention JB Welding some of the starter gears..Not sure how you that's possible and still allow it to work??

Tommy2 screwed with this post 09-21-2010 at 04:27 PM
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 04:56 PM   #4
SCQTT
Zwei Kolben
 
SCQTT's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Mike's Sky Rancho
Oddometer: 5,324
82 Viragos started having starter problems the second they were uncrated. Many, many "Virgos" did.

If there were ever a time for "they all do that" this would be it.

Best of luck, it is a TPITA.

If you can I'd stick with the OE pipes too. The carbs can be a bitch to get set up right with aftermarket stuff.

Oh yeah.....those were the years for Yamamush brakes.

Yamaha, my favorite brand of Japanese motorcycles, but the Virago can be a challenge.
__________________
This is SPARTA!
SCQTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 11:13 AM   #5
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
I went ahead and just welded the 2 pieces together. From what I can gather, the shims are just to prevent the large ring gear from spinning. Welding is a much better solution.

Had a shop up the road do it real quick for $5. Not the best welds, but it'll hold. Matching weld on the other side:



The ring gear was stuck to the piece pretty good when I pulled them out. I thought for sure someone had epoxied them..but with a gentle tap, they came apart. So it's possible the shims were doing their job and had the 2 pieces held together fairly well. I'll still use the new shim, plus maybe one of the OEM original shims to help hold everything super tight and not stress the welds.

I also found another shim on the other side of the gears.. No idea if it's supposed to be there or not.. Will just put it back where I found it.

Should have it all reinstalled this afternoon. Should have ordered a new side cover gasket as well - but hoping some gasket maker can save this one..Don't feel like waiting a week for a new one to arrive.
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 08:38 AM   #6
RedRocket
Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs
 
RedRocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 19,590
Don't take it personally, the Viragotech site is still down for repairs.

Sorry I can't help you. On my 82 I got lucky and found an 85 model parts bike for cheap. I upgraded my entire system and now mine starts like a normal bike.

Here, have some motivation:

RedRocket is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 08:53 AM   #7
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
That's much better.. Maybe I can do the same if I keep the bike long term.

I got it back together and cranked the motor several times. It no longer spins on it's own - but it still grinds/binds up every few tries.

Not sure how to correct it.. I used the G clip, but didn't use the idler gear #2 spacer..It would have put the throw gear too close to the flywheel and probably rubbed on it.

Awful, awful design. I think this might be as good as it gets. You have the throw gear crashing into the flywheel.. I don't think it's possible for it to work without grinding/binding sometimes.

Hate to finish the job with these results.. Eventually the flywheel and #2 idler gear will wear out like this.
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 09:13 AM   #8
RedRocket
Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs
 
RedRocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 19,590
I think that if it's working better and more often you shouldn't be looking for perfection here, and just start it when you need to start it.
RedRocket is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 11:30 AM   #9
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
Yea..I guess that's pretty much the scenerio. Hopefully fill it with oil today and ride it around a bit.
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 03:48 PM   #10
Emoto
Sure, why not?
 
Emoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: SE Mass
Oddometer: 17,976
Having had the pleasure of wrenching professionally at a Yamaha shop in the 1980s, I saw my share of these. I never tired welding one up like you did; it will be interesting to see how well it goes. At least with the shims, it is pretty quick to put them in and test it until you get the "right" number (defined as working well) in there.

While you're in there, I recommend cleaning up the armature as best you can to get the carbon residue off the coppery areas. Can help it spin a little stronger.
__________________
Eventual Master of the Obvious
2005 R1200GS | 2013 R1200GSW | SOHC4 208 | DoD 2032 | BMWMOA | BMWRA | YB
Proud walking jingle in the midnight sun.
Smugmug Discount: https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=mStnWv71mNkjo
Support .orgs that work to protect your rights: ACLU, NRA, EFF
Emoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 04:44 PM   #11
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
Yea, I did that.

I started the bike up a few times today. It does seem much better. No more spinning. Didn't bind, or grind much..

Have another issue though..Was running pretty crappy trying to get warmed up with the choke off. I think the intake boots are breathing in a lot of air. Found some new ones for around $50. Went ahead and ordered them.

Sucks that the riding season is almost over and I've barely been able to enjoy it..
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2010, 12:52 PM   #12
simestd
Gnarly Adventurer
 
simestd's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Anchorage, AK
Oddometer: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy2
Yea, I did that.

Have another issue though..Was running pretty crappy trying to get warmed up with the choke off. I think the intake boots are breathing in a lot of air. Found some new ones for around $50. Went ahead and ordered them.

Sucks that the riding season is almost over and I've barely been able to enjoy it..
I just resurrected an 82 750 Virago from being a $600 parts bike and I may be able to help with getting the carburetors sorted out. In the process, I learned A LOT about how these particular carbs work. I've got a slipping starter too and will be installing the "Chobber Bob" shim/gclip kit as well as a general brush & rebuild kit from Stokers Starters once the riding season ends.

Anyway, put over 3000 miles on my Virago this summer and knock on wood have the carbs dialed in pretty well - good plug color, runs well from idle to WOT, can start w/o choke even when cold and I'm getting 40+ MPG.
simestd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 05:19 PM   #13
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
Any tips on the carbs?

I think I'm running a little lean.. Rebuilt petcocks and new intake boots.

Takes a little bit to get warmed up. Also has a slight miss/carb cough sometimes under 35mph holding the throttle steady.

It otherwise has a lot of power and accelerates really well.

I'm not really worried about it. The bike is otherwise fine and I put over 80 miles on it yesterday.


Also, I woulnd't bother with the Chopper Bob kit. That was a total waste of money. My starter was already shimmed and was still slipping. I just simply welded the ring gear inside. A local machine shop did it for $5. His kit also comes with a rubber spacer..Don't use it. It will put the idler gear right on top of the flywheel. In fact..I should ask for my money back after buying it..Pretty dissapointing.
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 08:13 AM   #14
simestd
Gnarly Adventurer
 
simestd's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Anchorage, AK
Oddometer: 265
Since the bike is running well, It sounds like your carburetors are in pretty good shape. If you haven't been riding it much, I'd put a few ounces of Seafoam in the tank and go for a nice long ride before adjusting anything on the carburetors.

From there, the only things I would suggest are to double check the float level (on the center stand), check the balance at idle and 3K, and then finish dialing in the idle mixture. The idle circuit is more important on these bikes than a lot of people realize because of their lower RPM range. Some people try setting the idle by pulling (and grounding) one plug wire and then adjusting the idle mixture for peak RPM on the running cylinder. Personally, I invested in a Colortune plug - and it's perfect for quickly getting the idle mixture set without guessing.

BTW, the carb manometer I use cost about $3 and is just tubing, 50W oil and a yardstick. Of course I presume you've found the VIrago forum over at http://viragotechforum.com/

Oh! One more thing, you say you think you're running lean - and your description of having problems getting it warmed up and off the choke fit that as well. These carbs came stock with 128 main jets in the front and 132 in the rear. The most popular carb rebuild kit for these (the K&L kit) includes 122 main jets and uses the stock main needles. After my tinkering, I'm convinced the K&L kit sets up the main mixture too lean and people compensate by richening up the idle circuit which naturally causes other problems. If the Seafoam, balance and a little dialing of the idle mixture don't do it, I would recommend a post-season clean & rebuild with a Keyster KY-0187 kit. The Keyster kit includes 128 main jets and their own matching main needle - that's what I'm running now with stock intake and exhaust.

Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack a starter thread. If I can help further, start up a carb tuning thread or just hit me up privately. Good luck!

simestd screwed with this post 10-12-2010 at 08:35 AM
simestd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 08:34 AM   #15
Tommy2 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 232
I tried to join the forum, but my membership was never activated. Guess I should try again.

Yea, I am NOT going to do a full tear down on these carbs with just this minor issue. I can live with it. Not gonna dump days of time and a bunch of money to fix it. It's nothing major.

I've ran seafoam through it a couple times. No difference. Luckily this bike was ridden a lot of the past year (several thousand miles by the previous owner), so the carbs should be gunk free.

At this point in the riding season, I'm seeing if I can sell the bike. Could use the money for more important stuff right now.

I do like the bike a lot though.. Aside from the starter, petcocks, intake books, and a few other misc issues - they seem like very good bikes.
Tommy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014