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Old 09-23-2010, 11:51 AM   #1
tilting40s OP
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Squid needs advice

Ok got some questions for people who know what they are talking about. Riding road! I love the twisties but Im riding on 90/90 21 and 130/90/17. Granted Im on scorpion trails which I heard and have good traction. I know if I really want to whoop it up I need some 17s with 160/70 but just don't have the money. Ive been practicing pushing my comfort zone just little bits at a time, but really want to know what Im ultimatly capable of in corners. Im on a 2005 klr GREAT FIRST BIKE for riding on the road. (I have a fair amount of MX expience) -CR 250 just want to know from people with the experience where I need to draw the line with my leaning? Any thoughts comments experiences would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to learn as much as possible to aviod the inevitable.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:35 PM   #2
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..great ride report!
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:39 PM   #3
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Rubber side down. Never shiny side. That's your limit.

Cool story brah.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilting40s
Ok got some questions for people who know what they are talking about. Riding road! I love the twisties but Im riding on 90/90 21 and 130/90/17. Granted Im on scorpion trails which I heard and have good traction. I know if I really want to whoop it up I need some 17s with 160/70 but just don't have the money. Ive been practicing pushing my comfort zone just little bits at a time, but really want to know what Im ultimatly capable of in corners. Im on a 2005 klr GREAT FIRST BIKE for riding on the road. (I have a fair amount of MX expience) -CR 250 just want to know from people with the experience where I need to draw the line with my leaning? Any thoughts comments experiences would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to learn as much as possible to aviod the inevitable.
Don't do it on the street. My son took his old KDX 200 enduro bike, slapped some street tires on it and started going to supermoto tracks. It taught him a lot. Then he started riding an old Duc at track days as well as the supermoto. He was doing this while in college. After a year of that he started road racing summers and progressed from novice to expert in three successive seasons.

The best place to learn is track days. Even with that tire set-up, your KLR will be good at it. Worst thing is you scuff it a little, which make them more lovable anyways. Going fast on pavement isn't like dirt. You keep the wheels in line and ride the front.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:31 PM   #5
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I have no problem leaving most sport bikes behind on a twisty road on a dual sport with semi knobby tires. My KLR650, XT350, and DR250 all run out of ground clearance before they run out of traction. Even fairly knobby tires like Pirelli MT21s and Dunlop 606s stick far better on the street than you would expect. With Duro median tires on my KLR I got it over far enough to scrape the footpeg bolts and the skidplate.
The secret to riding fast in the twisties is practice, practice, practice. Increase your lean angle gradually and be smooth. Don't try to become fast overnight.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:54 PM   #6
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not a ride report.

moved to PL.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Photog
not a ride report.
moved to PL.
duh!
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Rapid Dog
duh!
Noted for OP so he knows why I moved it.

Thanks,
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photog
Noted for OP so he knows why I moved it.
..sorry, din't know you was an admin, just want to draw attention to one...

..now, back to tthe topic...ditto what Pantah sez...don't practice pushing the limits on the street. I hope the heck you wear good gear if you do.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilting40s
Ok got some questions for people who know what they are talking about. Riding road! I love the twisties but Im riding on 90/90 21 and 130/90/17. Granted Im on scorpion trails which I heard and have good traction. I know if I really want to whoop it up I need some 17s with 160/70 but just don't have the money. Ive been practicing pushing my comfort zone just little bits at a time, but really want to know what Im ultimatly capable of in corners. Im on a 2005 klr GREAT FIRST BIKE for riding on the road. (I have a fair amount of MX expience) -CR 250 just want to know from people with the experience where I need to draw the line with my leaning? Any thoughts comments experiences would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to learn as much as possible to aviod the inevitable.
Maybe if you plan to race supermoto you need the 17s. The fact is I've seen a guy on a beater XR600R Honda with a 21/17 set up running mostly worn out street tires kicking the ass of some really nice shiny new KTMs. If the tires stick the bikes turn. Sure that guy on the XR could ride, but still, no 17s, a worn Sport Elite on the back (yes an old bias ply) and some 21" road tire.

I run the Duro Median HF903/904 tires and have yet to have any issues with the tires letting loose, even when chasing my two friends on their supermotoed LC XR650R and an Aprilia SVX550. Sure the guy on the SVX could kick my ass on acceleration and was also a better rider, but neither one of us sees the street as a track, so the Duros do the job.

For most on the street, 17s are stylin', not necessary. So don't worry.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:11 PM   #11
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Thanks for the info, I do wear gear and not cheap crap either. I do push my self on the roads, anyway being a noob me pushing my limits is an experienced rider cruising its all relative. I do want to get on the track and see "whats up" but is seems so expensive and infinion is the only track close couldnt really find any info on a noob day or spec for what you need to have safety wise to ride.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator
I have no problem leaving most sport bikes behind on a twisty road on a dual sport with semi knobby tires.
All that means is that you are riding closer to the limit than they are.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilting40s
Thanks for the info, I do wear gear and not cheap crap either. I do push my self on the roads, anyway being a noob me pushing my limits is an experienced rider cruising its all relative. I do want to get on the track and see "whats up" but is seems so expensive and infinion is the only track close couldnt really find any info on a noob day or spec for what you need to have safety wise to ride.
Sears point is an excellent place to learn. They even have a supermoto track (It's actually the kart track above the paddock). They have special supermoto practice days there, which is sort of an open track. You should try it. Your KLR will eat it up even with the 21 front wheel.

Track days for the full course are expensive, but they all have a noob division. Usually, there are three speed groups; beginners, experienced, and licensed racers. Most track day vendors have classroom instruction in the morning followed by small groups of follow-the-leader behind an instructor. It starts out slow, mainly to show riders the line and what it feels like to use the controls and body positioning properly. Evey follow session, the instructor will pick up the pace. After lunch they send you out in your group for open track. You can go as fast as you feel comfortable. Your instructors will circulate with you and offer tips. You can pass, but you have to do it on the straights or outside of a turn.

By the end of the day your thighs will be burning as bad as if you ran two 40 minute motos in your old MX days. It's a physical sport. You can learn more by calling the race shops around the Bay Area. They probably all host track days. Certainly the Ducati stores do.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321
All that means is that you are riding closer to the limit than they are.
It also means he knows/trusts his tires better, can recognize road conditions better than they are - and is likely a better rider too. I've got so much time on the type of tire I ride and the bike I ride that some friends can not understand how I can ride it so fast in corners - and I'm not riding 100%, I'm always leaving significant margin for error or other situations.

On your comment, after all, the instant any of us leans into a corner we're closer to the limit than a rider who slows up and steers through with minimal or no lean... yes, I've seen riders go that slow.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321
All that means is that you are riding closer to the limit than they are.
That may be true but I haven't exceeded the limit yet....at least not on the pavement. The fact is, most tires have a much higher limit than most riders are willing to use. You don't need wide, sticky, 17 inch sport tires to lean a bike over.
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