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Old 03-13-2013, 04:52 PM   #3136
BergDonk
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Originally Posted by GodSilla View Post
Given the amount the government is being charged to construct a lousy kilometre of road, I'd say it's keeping a couple of construction executives in the style to which they have become accustomed. We pay through the nose, ears, anus, and skin pores for roads which are fucked the day they open them. The "repairs" that are happening on the Monaro Hwy are like a downgrade, the old surface is infinitely better than the new ones which seem as though they rolled some dirt, left it for a week to the traffic, then just sprayed tar on it.
I recall the Dunstan government in SA many years ago deciding that cheap roads were a false economy, so they just paid the money and got top-notch roads built. Those roads lasted for at least 25 years and were almost as good as the day they were laid, smooth, wide enough, well-designed.
You used to get what you paid for.
Mostly outsourced these days. Far more efficient not to do this stuff inhouse. Care and ownership costs money that is better spent on contractor profits
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:44 PM   #3137
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I have to disagree there.

The contractor has roughly the same capital and labour costs, but then loads a whopping premium on top (profit).

The mantra "Far more efficient not to do this stuff inhouse" is a transparently lame excuse to transfer public taxes into private hands. I have seen this first-hand for the last quarter of a century, working in government, where inhouse is cheaper, better result, and retains control, whereas outsourced is double the price (minimum), usually underdelivers (then charges premium rates to make up the difference for what was already paid for) and the outsourcer has you by the short-and-curlies.
The ONLY advantage is that outsourcers punish the customer for scope creep (changing the specs on the fly), whereas inhouse managers lack the testicular fortitude to just say "no", leading to all sorts of other self-inflicted problems.

Outsourcing is a VERY expensive way of avoiding the issue of poor in-house management. The public are paying megabucks to hide the incompetence of the very turds that are signing these contracts.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:54 PM   #3138
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Originally Posted by GodSilla View Post
I have to disagree there.

The contractor has roughly the same capital and labour costs, but then loads a whopping premium on top (profit).

The mantra "Far more efficient not to do this stuff inhouse" is a transparently lame excuse to transfer public taxes into private hands. I have seen this first-hand for the last quarter of a century, working in government, where inhouse is cheaper, better result, and retains control, whereas outsourced is double the price (minimum), usually underdelivers (then charges premium rates to make up the difference for what was already paid for) and the outsourcer has you by the short-and-curlies.
The ONLY advantage is that outsourcers punish the customer for scope creep (changing the specs on the fly), whereas inhouse managers lack the testicular fortitude to just say "no", leading to all sorts of other self-inflicted problems.

Outsourcing is a VERY expensive way of avoiding the issue of poor in-house management. The public are paying megabucks to hide the incompetence of the very turds that are signing these contracts.
I guess my cynicism above didn't come across, sorry. I agree, outsourcing is a piss poor way to do something, and when done often enough, the principle has to outsource the project management because they can't do that either, and then they are totally in the hands of the contractors who have no ownership of the outcome beyond the final payment. Contraction to 'core business', ugh. I was in quasi Govt, SMHEA then SHL, for 31 years before I gave it all away.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:40 AM   #3139
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Originally Posted by GodSilla View Post
Given the amount the government is being charged to construct a lousy kilometre of road, I'd say it's keeping a couple of construction executives in the style to which they have become accustomed. We pay through the nose, ears, anus, and skin pores for roads which are fucked the day they open them. The "repairs" that are happening on the Monaro Hwy are like a downgrade, the old surface is infinitely better than the new ones which seem as though they rolled some dirt, left it for a week to the traffic, then just sprayed tar on it.
I recall the Dunstan government in SA many years ago deciding that cheap roads were a false economy, so they just paid the money and got top-notch roads built. Those roads lasted for at least 25 years and were almost as good as the day they were laid, smooth, wide enough, well-designed.
You used to get what you paid for.
As someone who built the SE Freeway single handed in the early 70s (or that's what I told my kids when we drove on it) I'd have to agree. Still looks good.

If I remember correctly it cost about $1M per mile then, you're lucky to get 100 metres a million now. But then I was getting paid the princely sum of $1.05 an hour as a backhoe operator, so costs were a 'bit' lower.

And I must admit there is a section near Bridgewater turn off that had to be replaced within 3 weeks of being laid due to major subsidence, oops...

Cheers
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:30 AM   #3140
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And I must admit there is a section near Bridgewater turn off that had to be replaced within 3 weeks of being laid due to major subsidence, oops...

Cheers
Pete
I have to ask, did you work on that bit?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:19 AM   #3141
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Umm, technically yes, but I was just digging trenches, so hard to create subsidence problems doing that.

I think it was the soft cock techo's not measuring their penetration correctly..

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:46 AM   #3142
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I prefer Norton Summit and the Corkscrew and Loberthal and Myponga.

That said the SEF is a solid road.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:27 AM   #3143
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Bluhduh photo's verboten?

Who removed photo's in first post?
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:21 AM   #3144
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Were they smug mugged? Other than that they are dust.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:33 AM   #3145
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I prefer Norton Summit and the Corkscrew and Loberthal and Myponga.
I think a ride down those roads today might evoke a different reaction. The traffic is chronic these days, sadly.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:39 AM   #3146
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:08 PM   #3147
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The "repairs" that are happening on the Monaro Hwy are like a downgrade
must be why I now prefer to ride the Bobeyen road....
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:37 PM   #3148
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Wicked New arboretum looks good



Lots of loose gravel over bitumen, if you are checking out lovely new twisty's, funky look out etc
ps : top barby spot down through Himalayan cedar's
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:04 PM   #3149
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Lots of loose gravel over bitumen, if you are checking out lovely new twisty's, funky look out etc
ps : top barby spot down through Himalayan cedar's
yeah I reckon the loose gravel is to dissuade motorbikes from going too quick :)

Yeah it has nice views - I went out there for my first time on Friday.... did a longer ride around on the dirt track out the back too
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:37 PM   #3150
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Lots of loose gravel over bitumen, if you are checking out lovely new twisty's, funky look out etc
ps : top barby spot down through Himalayan cedar's
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