ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2010, 05:49 PM   #1
Orangecicle OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,192
Dyno chart of a 950 Adv -- jetting suggestions?

Inmates, I've been all over on jetting of my '05 950 Adv. I think I'm finally close, but my seat of pants read of the bike told me I was lean on idle because I was getting runup of RPM on idle. The dyno chart shows this was right:



See the lean mix bump when on pilot? Gotta fix that. Here are my current settings:

Mains: 160/165
Pilots: 45s
Floats: 3 mm
Needles: Factory Pro stuff on the middle clip
Mix screws: out 1.25 turns
Altitude: 850 ft, roughly

The dyno guy suggested that I go to 47.5 pilot jets and go to 1.5 turns out on the mix screws. His thinking is that the bigger pilots will take care of the lean at the beginning of the chart, and the additional mix will keep the remainder close to appropriate but favoring slightly rich (particularly in colder months on the way).

Any thoughts? Frankly, I've never seen an ADV with pilots larger than 45s, so I'm curious what everyone else thinks.

And let me add: Every bike is different, so my jetting ain't gonna be like your jetting. If you put my jetting in your bike, 99.9% of the time it ain't gonna work! I'm just trying to get advice on my jetting issues.

Much appreciated!
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9

Orangecicle screwed with this post 10-01-2010 at 05:54 PM
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 10:16 PM   #2
redbastard
Beastly Adventurer
 
redbastard's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Rat City
Oddometer: 1,122
fatten it up

I've got the stock pilots , and a 170 and 172.5 main jets. Needs to be one size smaller. I'll go wth a 170 rear , 167.5 front

redbastard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 07:28 PM   #3
Orangecicle OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,192
Pfffffft

Here I go again trying to get my 950 jetted right. Based on the dyno information above, it looked like my bike really wants larger pilot jets. Well, they don't make larger pilot jets than 45s. So . . . I started fresh. Called the guys at Factory Pro, and they gave a couple of thoughts. My first effort at a rejet was as follows:

Mains: 168/172
Pilots: 45s
Floats: 2.5 mm
Needles: Factory Pro on the middle clip.
Mix screws out: 2.25 turns
Stock air filter, and no pre-filter

The results were pretty good, but I could not get the bike to idle once heated up. Basically, she felt lean (significantly) again, with either a runup on RPM from 1,400 to about 1,800 while at a light, or I she would stop at 1,800 for about a minute before settling down to 1,400.

Talked to Factory Pro again, and they suggested opening up the mix by 1/2 a turn. I'm so tired of pulling the carbs out, I decided to just go to 3 turns out on the screws. Well, I rode her around tonight in about 55 degree temps, and I was still having a little trouble getting the bike to idle down at a light. Otherwise, I would say that the bike feels slightly fat.

I could start trimming on the mains and go back to the stock position on the needle. But, it's disappointing to me that I just can't get the bike to idle perfectly. And, it seems that if I start coming down on the mains or the needle that it just makes the idle situation worse.

Very frustrated at this point. Any thoughts appreciated.
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 08:05 PM   #4
A.Vern
One Man Wolf Pack
 
A.Vern's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Transplanted in North Padre Island, Tejas
Oddometer: 974
I'm very interested to see how this turns out.

My '04 is doind the same thing.... Starts up at 1400, then runs itself up to 1800. Is pretty annoying at lights and causes the bike to run hotter than normal.

I thought it was a vacuum leak, but repaces all the intake manifold hoses with no improvement.

My next thought was faulty throttle position switch...

I've got FMF pipes on my ADV with unknown jetting from a pevious owner.
Would running lean really cause the idlle to wander so much?
A.Vern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 08:08 PM   #5
Flanny
Flanny-it-up!
 
Flanny's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
Oddometer: 2,738
Have you completely ruled out any air leaks?
Flanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 08:31 PM   #6
Orangecicle OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
Have you completely ruled out any air leaks?
You bet. The vacuum lines are all removed and manifold ports plugged with bolts coated with Permatex. The rubber boots under the carbs look good, and the carbs are properly seated. The bike has 25K on her, so I don't think it is carb wear. TPS is properly set at .5 volts when off throttle. Carbs are properly vented out the bottom of the airbox. The bike has non-cat Gualdi exhaust, and I've removed the SAS and Canister. Tanks vents are run per the H.O.W. behind the radiator to open air. The only mod I've not done to her is the flapendectomy, which I don't think would be an issue here.

I would note that the bike seems to run fine in the morning when cold. She just needs a little choke. However, by the time that I've ridden 15 minutes to work on the interstate, she has the problem of runup on idle. Do you think that it could be the stock fuel pump dropping pressure once the bike is heated up and getting into a lean condition because of lack of fuel???? I'm just running out of ideas. My next venture might be to remove the mix screw all together.

A. Vern, it sounds like we have the exact same issues, and I'm about fresh out of ideas. But like Flanny, I can now disassemble and reassemble a 950 Adventure blindfolded!
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 08:34 PM   #7
Flanny
Flanny-it-up!
 
Flanny's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
Oddometer: 2,738
It's possible the bike is actually jetted so rich on the pilot circuit, that in order to compensate, you've had to turn your idle way up, thus leaning out the mixture with the butterfly valve opening.
Flanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 09:14 PM   #8
A.Vern
One Man Wolf Pack
 
A.Vern's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Transplanted in North Padre Island, Tejas
Oddometer: 974
Another symptom mine has is when I ride at elevations higher than 8000 MSL I need to bring up the RPM or she almost stalls out. I've heard from other 950 riders that this isn't normal.

I was just up at Dusy Ershim 3 days ago and adjusted the RPM to keep it running. When I came back to sea level, the RPM that I had adjusted to keep it at 1400 RPM was up at 2200.

I reset 1400... and had the same issue with run up.

Could this be too rich?

I'm planning to put all stock needles in so I have a base line to work from.

A mile in from the North side of Dusy Ershim looking over the Sierra (alt 10K MSL).

A.Vern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 01:10 AM   #9
men8ifr
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Midlands UK
Oddometer: 383
From a basic point of view if you're OK when cold but the problem gets worse once fully warm that would indicate too rich unless there is an air leak which opens up once the motors fully upto temp.

Don't forget idling with the throttle shut is very different to being at the same RPM but throttle wide open as per your dyno run...

Also the mixture screw should mostly control fuel at idle but if you have to move that to the limit of its adjustment then it's time for a different pilot jet.

Is it possible to idle the bike with tanks removed or whatever so you can get to the mixture screw, If so i'd set the bike idling filly warm then adjust the screws one way then the other to see what improves the idle. Again I'd look for fuel mixture giving max RPM then adjust your idle speed control to give the rpm you want.
men8ifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 07:24 AM   #10
Orangecicle OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by men8ifr
From a basic point of view if you're OK when cold but the problem gets worse once fully warm that would indicate too rich unless there is an air leak which opens up once the motors fully upto temp.

Don't forget idling with the throttle shut is very different to being at the same RPM but throttle wide open as per your dyno run...

Also the mixture screw should mostly control fuel at idle but if you have to move that to the limit of its adjustment then it's time for a different pilot jet.

Is it possible to idle the bike with tanks removed or whatever so you can get to the mixture screw, If so i'd set the bike idling filly warm then adjust the screws one way then the other to see what improves the idle. Again I'd look for fuel mixture giving max RPM then adjust your idle speed control to give the rpm you want.
Yep. Going from 2.25 turns out on mix to 3 turns out makes the idle problem worse -- by far. She smells like the Exxon Valdez, too. Next try is dropping 1/2 turn in from where I was -- down to 1.75 turns out. If that won't calm down the idle, I dunno. Maybe Flex Jet 2s!!! Maybe trying the 42 idle jets again.

I'm apparently more hamfisted than you, and I don't think I can get my hand in that little triangle door with a screwdriver.
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 07:33 AM   #11
dad2bike
Cranky Old Fart
 
dad2bike's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Oddometer: 3,471
I fully recommend doing the flex-jet remote screws. I've got one of the original sets that Dean developed. http://www.r1dean.com/cart/index.php...products_id=52

I can tweak my mixture whether in the mountains or change of outside temps. All done sitting at a long stop light.

I'm watching your thread to see ideas for improvements for mine.
I recently put a BMC filter on with my Prefilter. Seems like I gave up quite a bit on the top. Since I do mostly street, gonna give the BMC with just the snorkle a shot. Also go back to the larger mains when I do.
I'm running the H2W jetting in mine.
__________________
Tom
2006 950 Adventure "Big Orange", 2009 690R "Ginger",2003 525 EXC,
To Think is to Create!
My2Wheels
690 WIKI
dad2bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 07:35 AM   #12
Orangecicle OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Vern
Another symptom mine has is when I ride at elevations higher than 8000 MSL I need to bring up the RPM or she almost stalls out. I've heard from other 950 riders that this isn't normal.

I was just up at Dusy Ershim 3 days ago and adjusted the RPM to keep it running. When I came back to sea level, the RPM that I had adjusted to keep it at 1400 RPM was up at 2200.

I reset 1400... and had the same issue with run up.

Could this be too rich?
A. Vern, you're describing a rich problem. Did the bike run well when you bought it? Was the bike set for a different elevation?
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 07:57 AM   #13
A.Vern
One Man Wolf Pack
 
A.Vern's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Transplanted in North Padre Island, Tejas
Oddometer: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangecicle
A. Vern, you're describing a rich problem. Did the bike run well when you bought it? Was the bike set for a different elevation?
The bike ran well when I bought it, but I did have to adjust the idle as I rode home from Albuquerque, New Mexico (fly and buy) to sea level in Central California.

I didn't notice the surging idle issue until I took it to KTM Reno and had them do a valve adjustment, water pump job and the head nut TSB.

When I got it back, the idle was real bad, setting 1400 first, then it would hang at 2000, then randomly drop to 900 and almost stall and then back to 1400.

I replaced the air filter (dirty), took the carbs off, redid the intake manifold bolts on the left and new hoses on the right and redid the Y hose and dropped two hoses through as the Canisterectomy calls for.

This helped the surging go from 900-2000 to 1400-1800.

Better, but still not right and I have to increase the RPM at high altitudes.

I guess the only thing to do now is put in stock needles and see what that does?
A.Vern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 08:29 AM   #14
Chuckracer
Jerkus Maximus
 
Chuckracer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Lowville, NY
Oddometer: 7,624
I'd switch back to the 42 pilots before I dropped the needles.
__________________
2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure
Chuckracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 08:49 AM   #15
Flanny
Flanny-it-up!
 
Flanny's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
Oddometer: 2,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
I'd switch back to the 42 pilots before I dropped the needles.

Yup - go back to stock and start over. I would also ditch the factory pro, which from all accounts sets the bike up way too rich.

If you want to keep the 45 pilots, then you need:

45 pilots, # 70 secondary air jets, stock needle 3rd clip, and IMS at 1.25-1.75 should be in the zone.
Flanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014