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Old 05-22-2013, 08:57 PM   #2161
Zombie_Stomp
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Wicked Workin' at Kirk's!

I finally made it up here! I spent 6 or 7 hours on the road getting here from central NC. He lives in the most beautiful, scenic parts of Virginia I rode through. I knew he was cool but was even cooler than I expected. He lifted me up on the gantry crane by one of the pre-fabbed BR Moto pannier loops I brought, with a big dumb grin on my face, and it only got more fun from there. Now I've got those in their first stage of mock-up on my bike with all 4 mounting points started: tabs of flat bar cut and drilled, bolted to the rack. 2 pieces of tube on the passenger peg mounts cut to length and bolted on with longer bolts. Two pieces of tube mitre cut and tacked to the upper tabs and to the pannier loops symmetrically, square with the ground after we leveled the bike on the stand. Just need to get the proper longer hardware to mount this and the removae crossbar tomorrow and I'll knock it out with the greatest of ease. Photos to come. Couldn't help but write a teaser. Sux for the viewers right now but we should all be asleep now anyway. Just winding down.
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Zombie_Stomp screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 09:03 PM
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:19 AM   #2162
kirkster70 OP
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Yeppers! Zombie Crusher swings by to hang around for a bit. Yuk, yuk, yuk.

Stick around for awhile. The jokes only get worse.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:36 AM   #2163
victor441
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great photos on rack building! (though I guess they will be in another thread soon) FWIW I have a similar hole saw type tubing notcher but made a rack from 1/2" 16ga tubing awhile back and found out by experimenting that a 12" round file worked great for notching the 1/2" tubes (it is not quite finished in the photo) ...anyway worth a try if you ever work w/ 1/2" tubing. I don't do nearly enough yet to justify the expense of a quality bender so I used sand and heat (from a MAP torch) and the bends came out OK (but not perfect)... also a coathanger wire template did the trick to match the bend angles on each side. The results are definitely not professional quality but are not too bad and the very low $$$ tools required are maybe a good option for someone making only a rack or two....

(and finally sand bending can be dangerous (i.e. steam explosion if sand is not perfectly dry) if done wrong so if anyone plans to try it do some reading first, lots of good info on the web))


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Old 05-23-2013, 12:39 PM   #2164
EvilGenius
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Have any of y'all trid using an actual hole saw to create notches in tubing for intersecting other tubes?

If so, what size saw would you use for say 1/2" tubing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:18 PM   #2165
victor441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGenius View Post
Have any of y'all trid using an actual hole saw to create notches in tubing for intersecting other tubes?

If so, what size saw would you use for say 1/2" tubing.
You use the size of the tubing you are matching to...for example if you were welding a 1/2" tube to a 3/4"tube you would notch the smaller tube w/ a 3/4" hole saw. You definitely do need the notching fixture to do it, I learned the hard way when I made my own fixture, had a piece jam, and bent the spindle on my drill press (FWIW fortunately it is an old Craftsman and a new spindle was available and cheap) . Hobby grade notchers are not too expensive and you also need to use quality bimetal hole saws for good results.

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Old 05-23-2013, 01:47 PM   #2166
clintnz
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Nice work on the rack as always Kirk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by victor441 View Post
great photos on rack building! (though I guess they will be in another thread soon) FWIW I have a similar hole saw type tubing notcher but made a rack from 1/2" 16ga tubing awhile back and found out by experimenting that a 12" round file worked great for notching the 1/2" tubes (it is not quite finished in the photo) ...anyway worth a try if you ever work w/ 1/2" tubing.
Yep, not having a 1/2" hole saw I used a 1/2" dia round file for a recent project & it worked great. Most of my tube work so far has been 5/8" & I have rigged a notcher setup in my wee lathe for that, close fitting joiints make the welding so much easier. Note homemade bender in background. I have made the dies for it (1/2 & 5/8 so far) in the lathe. The lathe cost less than a set of bending dies.



One tip on holesaws, different brands of bi-metal holesaws can have slightly different tooth counts, obviously more is better for metal so count em up before you buy. Run that holesaw nice & slow too

Cheers
Clint
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:32 PM   #2167
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Thanks guys, but the compliments need to go to Zombie. He built them himself while I was tigging away in the other garage. He did a great job!


Little known fact...he is also a very talented musician! I had to brag on him a bit.

...oh, did I mention he makes soft bags?


... and can also make bags to go inside the panniers I'm making? He's quite talented.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:47 PM   #2168
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More piccys of Zombie Stomp's work that he performed while here...


































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Old 05-23-2013, 07:48 PM   #2169
kirkster70 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor441 View Post
great photos on rack building! (though I guess they will be in another thread soon) FWIW I have a similar hole saw type tubing notcher but made a rack from 1/2" 16ga tubing awhile back and found out by experimenting that a 12" round file worked great for notching the 1/2" tubes (it is not quite finished in the photo) ...anyway worth a try if you ever work w/ 1/2" tubing. I don't do nearly enough yet to justify the expense of a quality bender so I used sand and heat (from a MAP torch) and the bends came out OK (but not perfect)... also a coathanger wire template did the trick to match the bend angles on each side. The results are definitely not professional quality but are not too bad and the very low $$$ tools required are maybe a good option for someone making only a rack or two....

(and finally sand bending can be dangerous (i.e. steam explosion if sand is not perfectly dry) if done wrong so if anyone plans to try it do some reading first, lots of good info on the web))


Looks like some quality work to me!

I bet that's fun to ride with the sumo tires!
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:50 PM   #2170
kirkster70 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
Nice work on the rack as always Kirk!



Yep, not having a 1/2" hole saw I used a 1/2" dia round file for a recent project & it worked great. Most of my tube work so far has been 5/8" & I have rigged a notcher setup in my wee lathe for that, close fitting joiints make the welding so much easier. Note homemade bender in background. I have made the dies for it (1/2 & 5/8 so far) in the lathe. The lathe cost less than a set of bending dies.



One tip on holesaws, different brands of bi-metal holesaws can have slightly different tooth counts, obviously more is better for metal so count em up before you buy. Run that holesaw nice & slow too

Cheers
Clint
Thant's a very nice and tidy shop you have there, Clint!
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:38 PM   #2171
Zombie_Stomp
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Wicked

First I cut some flat stock and drilled holes the size of the original Yamaha rear rack mounting bolts. I cut some notches after I found it was too wide. It was interfering with the unflattened portion of the rear rack tube. The entire mounting flange would later be reshaped anyway. The idea that having the tab cut out right up to the unflattened part became a non-issue once I considered the effect of the other mounting points.

For the bottom mounts I used thick wall tube so the longer bolt I use would more directly receive the shear load applied to it instead of shifting eccentrically.

The one on the left side of the bike looks like it is bent down and forward, but I looked at the bracket on the frame that the passenger peg is mounted to, and it is made just like that at that angle, only the one out of four, for whatever reason.

I proceed to mitreing the tube to the general angle I want the pannier loops to hang off. It's an angle that creates nice space from other parts. As I go about each phase of bracketing I make realizations about how the geometry works in distributing the load. For example, when I was planning in my mind I thought I was going to have to weld thicker tabs onto my frame but Kirk said the existing ones would work fine. It wasn't until I was working my crossbar into the design that I finally realized how it was that these tabs would only be supporting weight hanging straight down and no twisting loads.

The pannier loops with the strap loops in an "X" configuration were purchased pre-fabricated from BR Moto, the maker of all Wolfman bags' racks. He's selling the pieces to make your own racks. I like their sort of compact footprint on the bike and the 'x' configuration of the strap loops has a kind of high-tech urban assault vehicle look that I find attractive. With all these charms and the uncertainty I'd be able to bend tube at that kind of radius, I felt the price was definitely worth it. Since I make soft bags and these are designed to mount Wolfman soft bags, I felt it was appropriate as well to be using something designed for that purpose, even though I'd never seen a Wolfman pannier in real life or designed my own that I'm going to use. I'll just make a new design that works with it and document that in my own thread.
You can see the passenger peg bushing looks bent down buy it's really square in it's hole in the peg bracket which is also square against it's bracket that just happens to have a weird angle. So I'm doing it right.
In addition to making clearance for the exhaust, I'm making clearance to take the side panels off with the racks still on. Stuff like this makes mock-up the longest part of the job.

I ended up having to redo all those lines because at the pipe bender I realized I would have to waste about 2" off the end in order to successfully bend the angle and have it come right up to the curve at the bushing. No big deal. I learned how to use the bender pretty quickly. Just one concept about adjusting some pins to the next hole over when bending angles more acute than 50 degrees came into play when building the crossbar. I began to understand how it actually worked as I used it. That's my kind of learning.





Some bending starting g to happen. The. I notched a little but realized there wasn't a way to mix proper hole saw notching and be ding with certain angle/ length combinations. Kirk showed a photo of a notcher he doesn't own that would be perfect for overcoming that since it only grips a small section of the pipe in a little metal sling and adjusts degrees for angle notching g. I'll have to go back to his truck bumper build post because I don't remember how he notched the pipe but it was pretty precise and I didn't happen to notice any angle settings. But for my tight short run with a snaking angle, I just had to go back got he good old angle grinder notch-check-notch-check then fill in the difference, which I wod be doing quite a bit of ( filling in the difference with weld) on my upper bracket legs. It works and it quite strong.
r

































So there's the right side ( the most difficult due to exhaust and a feature of the exhaust built into the footpeg mount as an exhaust foot guard) and me getting ready to start on the second lower bracket leg. The left one was ten times easier. Next I'll show the crossbar mock up and the whole rack re- fitted having been fully welded and new stainless steel hardware fitted, ready for paint. Iparty masked the finished product with packing paper and sprayed it with a preview of red paint which I think will look great with the already red factory rack since there's nothing black on this bike. I'll let people vote on it and the. I'll paint it red. I'm riding back to N.C. with a mostly raw surface. I thought about clear coating it.

Edit: notice the text all wonked up. Please excuse. Will fix when on a full size computer. Not bad for an iPhone.
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.

Zombie_Stomp screwed with this post 05-25-2013 at 07:27 AM
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:05 PM   #2172
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Wicked

So this is day 2 of my work on my panniers in pictures. Many of you will be Ae to interpret what exactly I am doing and what tools I'm using to perform each step. I learn a lot every time I make something like this. Today I'd like to acknowledge the fact that the more time you spend and the better tools you have, the better it can be. I'll narrate these photos later but now I've claimed them as mine. Note the crossbar has 4 bolts total. Call me a paranoid non- engineer, but I thought if it had the ability to possibly pivot on just two bolts, the inward twist of the racks might be increased. Seemed best to have 4 but not 100% sure it adds rigidity. Discuss and debate amongst yourselves...

































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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #2173
DirtyDog
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Nice job, Zombie. I'm sold on your reasoning for the 4 bolts.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #2174
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Nice work there, gents!
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:46 AM   #2175
dentvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkster70 View Post
Pretty fun tool to play with, isn't it? More useful than you could ever imagine and it allows you to tackle big jobs with ease.

I was REALLY bummed out the other day when Dave stopped by and I couldn't post pics of his V-Strom hoisted in the air while performing a swingarm repair. We had to use a come-along on the beam instead of the hoist. I guess I could have snapped some pics still, but it just wasn't the same. HaHa!

I'm glad it's fixed now!
Hey, the gantry worked fine. I'm glad this didn't scratch your driveway. thanks again...

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