awww crap did i drop my thrust washer into the engine?! - Page 2

coyotejoe · 10-05-2010, 11:37 PM

craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. so i removed the flywheel again and pushed the seal in as far as i could and when i tried to spin it, it wouldnt budge at all. i started to think what could have gone wrong and i noticed a piece of metal that came loose as i was pushing around the seals. some how the slinky looking spring circular thing that hides behind the copper plate was crushed and broke.

im not sure what its purpose is and how it got crushed but im guessing its not good and could partially be a reason why things arent moving the way it should.

i did torque the flywheel bolts to 75 ft/lbs and noticed a weird sound which was probably the spring being crushed but i have no idea how that could have happened....any suggestions?

Bill Harris · 10-06-2010, 03:47 AM

Inside the lip of the seal there is a spring that keeps tension on the seal lips. It probably is probably that and it got dislodged when you removed the old seal (or installed the new one, make sure that it isn't from the new seal).

Without pics, just guessing...

AntonLargiader · 10-06-2010, 04:24 AM

You have an older design seal. Replace it.

This is good news.. you don't have to pull the crank yet.

kixtand · 10-06-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotejoe

craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. so i removed the flywheel again and pushed the seal in as far as i could and when i tried to spin it, it wouldnt budge at all. i started to think what could have gone wrong and i noticed a piece of metal that came loose as i was pushing around the seals. some how the slinky looking spring circular thing that hides behind the copper plate was crushed and broke.

im not sure what its purpose is and how it got crushed but im guessing its not good and could partially be a reason why things arent moving the way it should.

i did torque the flywheel bolts to 75 ft/lbs and noticed a weird sound which was probably the spring being crushed but i have no idea how that could have happened....any suggestions?

I'm assuming that the copper plate you are referring to is the thrust washer that goes twixt the flywheel and the engine case, and the spring you are referring to is the spring that goes around the lip of the rear main seal. Assuming I am correct (I know, a lot of assumptions ...) it sounds like the spring became dislodged and somehow got under the thrust washer. So, based on that, I would closely inspect the thrust washer to make sure there is no damage. If there is, replace the thrust washer, which means checking the crank endplay, at a minimum.

coyotejoe · 10-06-2010, 09:33 AM

i took some pictures last night but for some reason i cant upload them...anyone know why?

so after reading Bill Harris' and AntonLargiader's response it sounds like the spring they're referring to is the same one. it keeps tension on the seal lips. my new seal didnt come with one...is it supposed to?

now the copper plate that it sits behind, is that the thrust washer?

and what is the crank endplay?

TimTowtdi · 10-06-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotejoe

i took some pictures last night but for some reason i cant upload them...anyone know why?

so after reading Bill Harris' and AntonLargiader's response it sounds like the spring they're referring to is the same one. it keeps tension on the seal lips. my new seal didnt come with one...is it supposed to?

now the copper plate that it sits behind, is that the thrust washer?

and what is the crank endplay?

Yes, that is the thrust washer. Check it out for any damage. If the spring was lodged between the flywheel and thrust washer, that could cause it to not turn. Hopefully it is fine. You can discard the spring BTW, the new seal design does not use a spring.

The Raven · 10-06-2010, 11:16 AM

That spring gave me pause too...it was designed to add tension. The new seal is black with a tan kevlar lip and no spring. A good design I hope. Also, no manual talks about how to install it. I can only commet on the G/S however so won't tell you the install specifics as it will fk you up more

coyotejoe · 10-06-2010, 12:04 PM

the original one that was on the bike was yellow but the one i installed was black. are you saying that if im using the black colored seal i dont need the spring?

The Raven · 10-06-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotejoe

the original one that was on the bike was yellow but the one i installed was black. are you saying that if im using the black colored seal i dont need the spring?

nope, the spring was part of the old seal...not needed. If you look at the old seal, you will see where the spring fit into it

Use common sense...do you see any functional need for it?

jtwind · 10-06-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotejoe

the original one that was on the bike was yellow but the one i installed was black. are you saying that if im using the black colored seal i dont need the spring?

No, some old seals used the coil spring inside a lip to help keep them tight. the new ones with new materials and designs don't need them. They aren'[t something you could put in a seal, they are obviously put in the seal as part of the manufactoring process.

coyotejoe · 10-06-2010, 01:19 PM

the thing im having trouble understanding is how in the world that spring got compressed in the first place. the flywheel bolts onto the crankshaft while the spring and thrust washer sit on the outside of it and can move freely. the only thing i could think of is if it fell off the crankshaft as i was installing the flywheel and got crushed when i was torqueing the flywheel bolts....but then the seal should have prevented that from happening...

also i kept the spring in there because 1) it was part of the original assembly and 2) isnt it used to help add tension on the thrust washer?

im going to try to remove the real main seal when i get home so i could see whats going on. ill keep you guys updated

Hawk Medicine · 10-06-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotejoe

im going to try to remove the real main seal when i get home so i could see whats going on. ill keep you guys updated

Now I'm confused...

mykill · 10-06-2010, 03:10 PM

CJ needs to figure out how to upload pics. But it sounds like he may have had a new style in there and replaced with an old style. The new ones are single lipped and yellow/ tan on the lip where the old ones were double lipped and black (I think they were black).
weird.

Infracaninophile · 10-06-2010, 03:15 PM

CJ:

Just sent you a PM and offered to host the pics for you. I can also post them if you like. I think 1-2 pics of your bikes will really help out here. I am sure someone here (not me) will offer you the right solution for your bike.

t.

Infracaninophile · 10-06-2010, 05:14 PM

Pics and Text from OP:

so adv1 was taken before i put the new seal in. you can see the
spring that ive been talking about behind the copper thrust washer
adv2 was taken last night. i was able to pull the spring out without
removing the seal which i think might be confusing people. either
that or it was my analysis of how i think the spring got crushed.
either way i forgot to explain everything which might have caused some
confusion.

Adv1:

Adv2: (I think):

Carry On.

Tom

10-06-2010, 03:47 AM	#17
Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2008 Location: backwoods Alabama Oddometer: 3,845	Inside the lip of the seal there is a spring that keeps tension on the seal lips. It probably is probably that and it got dislodged when you removed the old seal (or installed the new one, *make sure* that it isn't from the new seal). Without pics, just guessing... __________________ '73 R60/5 Toaster

10-06-2010, 04:24 AM	#18
AntonLargiader Beastly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: Charlottesville, VA Oddometer: 3,460	You have an older design seal. Replace it. This is good news.. you don't have to pull the crank yet. __________________ Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org

10-06-2010, 03:10 PM	#28
mykill odd Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Los Angeles Oddometer: 1,092	CJ needs to figure out how to upload pics. But it sounds like he may have had a new style in there and replaced with an old style. The new ones are single lipped and yellow/ tan on the lip where the old ones were double lipped and black (I think they were black). weird. __________________ Never underestimate the laxative properties of motorcycling.

10-06-2010, 03:15 PM	#29
Infracaninophile Finding My Way.. $Infracaninophile's Avatar$ Joined: Sep 2001 Location: New England, USA Oddometer: 7,513	CJ: Just sent you a PM and offered to host the pics for you. I can also post them if you like. I think 1-2 pics of your bikes will really help out here. I am sure someone here (not me) will offer you the right solution for your bike. t.
$Infracaninophile is offline$

10-06-2010, 05:14 PM	#30
Infracaninophile Finding My Way.. $Infracaninophile's Avatar$ Joined: Sep 2001 Location: New England, USA Oddometer: 7,513	Pics and Text from OP: so adv1 was taken before i put the new seal in. you can see the spring that ive been talking about behind the copper thrust washer adv2 was taken last night. i was able to pull the spring out without removing the seal which i think might be confusing people. either that or it was my analysis of how i think the spring got crushed. either way i forgot to explain everything which might have caused some confusion. Adv1: Adv2: (I think): Carry On. Tom Infracaninophile screwed with this post 10-06-2010 at 07:35 PM
$Infracaninophile is offline$

10-05-2010, 11:37 PM	#16
coyotejoe ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Oddometer: 16	craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. so i removed the flywheel again and pushed the seal in as far as i could and when i tried to spin it, it wouldnt budge at all. i started to think what could have gone wrong and i noticed a piece of metal that came loose as i was pushing around the seals. some how the slinky looking spring circular thing that hides behind the copper plate was crushed and broke. im not sure what its purpose is and how it got crushed but im guessing its not good and could partially be a reason why things arent moving the way it should. i did torque the flywheel bolts to 75 ft/lbs and noticed a weird sound which was probably the spring being crushed but i have no idea how that could have happened....any suggestions?

10-06-2010, 09:33 AM	#20
coyotejoe ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Oddometer: 16	i took some pictures last night but for some reason i cant upload them...anyone know why? so after reading Bill Harris' and AntonLargiader's response it sounds like the spring they're referring to is the same one. it keeps tension on the seal lips. my new seal didnt come with one...is it supposed to? now the copper plate that it sits behind, is that the thrust washer? and what is the crank endplay?

10-06-2010, 11:16 AM	#22
The Raven Banned Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Off the map, Oddometer: 4,813	That spring gave me pause too...it was designed to add tension. The new seal is black with a tan kevlar lip and no spring. A good design I hope. Also, no manual talks about how to install it. I can only commet on the G/S however so won't tell you the install specifics as it will fk you up more

10-06-2010, 12:04 PM	#23
coyotejoe ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Oddometer: 16	the original one that was on the bike was yellow but the one i installed was black. are you saying that if im using the black colored seal i dont need the spring?

10-06-2010, 01:19 PM	#26
coyotejoe ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Oddometer: 16	the thing im having trouble understanding is how in the world that spring got compressed in the first place. the flywheel bolts onto the crankshaft while the spring and thrust washer sit on the outside of it and can move freely. the only thing i could think of is if it fell off the crankshaft as i was installing the flywheel and got crushed when i was torqueing the flywheel bolts....but then the seal should have prevented that from happening... also i kept the spring in there because 1) it was part of the original assembly and 2) isnt it used to help add tension on the thrust washer? im going to try to remove the real main seal when i get home so i could see whats going on. ill keep you guys updated

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