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Old 10-07-2010, 02:55 PM   #46
Infracaninophile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris
Picture 2 is the rear thrust washer, the side that bears against the flywheel. Picture 3 is the other side of the same rear thrust washer, the side that bears against the engine block. You can see where the two locating pins have "embossed" the thrust washer (twice), and the dashed pattern of the seal lip-spring on the washer. There is a thrust washer (11111256973) in front of the rear main bearing (it is the one that usually gets trashed) and another (same part#) washer to the rear of the rear main brng (this one).
Bill:

Thank. So, part(s) #1 on this fiche picture is the crushed item? There are quantity 2 of part #1. Pic 2/3 just doesn't look like the pic in the fiche to me. That's where I got stuck. The one on the right is the one that is crushed in his pics.



Tom
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:09 PM   #47
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infracaninophile
Wire:

Not kidding. I can see Pics 2 & 3 are opposite sides of a metal donut piece. I guess I'm clueless: Exactly which piece is that? It must be something that you normally don't touch when you change the rear main seal as I don't recall it. I know I'm sometimes a smartass but I am serious.

Perhaps a part number would help me find it on the fiche...

Thanks,

Tom
This...




Goes in there..


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Old 10-07-2010, 03:18 PM   #48
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Tom here is what it looks like on our bikes


Still don't know how this guy managed this....it's all in using common sense...do not force...then again I did use a hammer on the oil cover so I can't talk
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:16 PM   #49
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so i guess the next step from here is to remove the right cylinder and try to get the inner thrust washer back onto the pins.

i had a few questions, hopefully someone will know the answers:
1. since i pushed the pins from the flywheel side in, is there any way that i can push or pull them back out?

2. does anyone happen to know the length of the pin from the engine case to the tip of the pin on the flywheel side?

3. what is the rear thrust washers purpose? is it needed?

4. how important is it to smooth out the engine case of where the spring left an indent?
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:49 PM   #50
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I'm afraid Anton is right. The crankshaft will have to come out. At that point you can set the locating pin depths properly-or replace them. And while the crank is out you can clean up the damage to the seal housing.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:47 PM   #51
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doh! o well this will be a good learning experience to understand how everything works.

can anyone recommend any good procedures or know of any good links that show the process?

i have a clymers manual so that'll be my baseline.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #52
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Quick question.... Im having trouble seeing why you have to remove the guide ring. Is it absolutely necessary to remove it in order to replace the Rear Main Seal??
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:01 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut.burner
Quick question.... Im having trouble seeing why you have to remove the guide ring. Is it absolutely necessary to remove it in order to replace the Rear Main Seal??
Yes.

The rear seal has a bit of a "dish" to the lip. You have to fit the seal first , then push the ring in to make the dish go the right way.
If you tried to put the seal on with the ring in place, it would distort or damage the lip of the seal.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:40 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotejoe
doh! o well this will be a good learning experience to understand how everything works.

can anyone recommend any good procedures or know of any good links that show the process?

i have a clymers manual so that'll be my baseline.
So you are contemplating pulling the crank? No offense but I would pass that job along to someone experienced at this point if the seal replacement went south that badly.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper ST4
So you are contemplating pulling the crank? No offense but I would pass that job along to someone experienced at this point if the seal replacement went south that badly.
FINALLY someone said it Some people are meant to work on bikes, others should just leave to to the experienced. This thread is a fine example.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:09 AM   #56
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Okay, guess I may be beating a dead horse here....

Under what circumstances would someone need to touch/remove/replace the rear thrust ring? The part that the OP crushed inadvertently? When I replaced my rear mail seal (with the help of Mr. Parkhouse) he never even touched that piece. We didn't discuss it either. So I would assume that unless you're doing a complete engine tear down it's not something you need to bother with?

If wrong, please help me understand.

As far as this being a huge $$ mistake, it looks to be that for sure. But I've made a ton of stupid mistakes when learning how to work on my bikes and don't feel the need to pass judgment on him. I sometimes redid things 2 or 3 times before I got them right. I've only been on the old school forum for a few years but this has to be at least the third or fourth person who's had a somewhat similar problem. One of the true values of this place is avoiding making mistakes that others make.

I mean, we're all (with the exception of the folks like Anton and Greg and a few others) DIY'ers here looking to learn and save $$.

T.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:24 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infracaninophile
As far as this being a huge $$ mistake, it looks to be that for sure. But I've made a ton of stupid mistakes when learning how to work on my bikes and don't feel the need to pass judgment on him. I sometimes redid things 2 or 3 times before I got them right. I've only been on the old school forum for a few years but this has to be at least the third or fourth person who's had a somewhat similar problem. One of the true values of this place is avoiding making mistakes that others make.
Who's passing judgment? We all make mistakes but we all have limitations as well. If someone is having trouble with a seal replacement then it's safe to say the crankshaft and repair is going to be a major challenge.

I'm torn between wanting to see a thread like that with lots of pictures and feeling for the poor motor. There's no way I would attempt it and I did my seal just fine but there are some things that are just out of the average Joe's league. Bottom end work, transmission work, head work, etc. require special skills and knowledge.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #58
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hey tom,

the guys on this thread are saying it depends on which rear main seal you get. my original bike came with a guide ring, thrust washer, and a yellow colored real main seal. i guess the guide ring put some tension against the thrust washer. if you have the same colored real main seal you dont have to mess with the thrust washer.

with this newer seal (black plastic cover with a brown inner lining like the one you have) the guys are saying you dont need the guide ring. i guess its common sense according to raven but thats when you'll have to tinker with the thrust washer. its pretty easy to remove/ put back on. the guide ring just sits behind it.

btw, good lookin out tom! but no worries because these guys dont bother me. i love motorcycles and i enjoy learning about how each one ive had works and the mechanics behind it. yea ill make mistakes here and there but im posting here hoping that someone else can learn from my mistakes while getting some knowledge from some of the more experienced people on this forum. this is a public forum after all and with that you always get your handful of _____(fill in the blank).
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Old 10-08-2010, 01:29 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
FINALLY someone said it Some people are meant to work on bikes, others should just leave to to the experienced. This thread is a fine example.
Oh c'mon. That which can be lost by trying this is far smaller than that which might be gained.

Some people are meant to explore, others should just stay on the couch.

Whether it's roads or engines, it seems to me that this forum is meant to support the explorer.

Dig in CJ and post pics.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkens
Oh c'mon. That which can be lost by trying this is far smaller than that which might be gained.

Some people are meant to explore, others should just stay on the couch.

Whether it's roads or engines, it seems to me that this forum is meant to support the explorer.

Dig in CJ and post pics.

I like this sentiment.
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