Hiker killed by goat on Hurricane Ridge

[Wallowa]

Originally Posted by Heymarz

So it's the goats fault the human was in his turf? Check.

No you missed it..the ram was aggressive and on the "watch list" for years...that ram should have known better...kill it...in fact kill them all...then we can eliminate the phrase: "getting ramed"..wait..what about bull elk...hell there is another target...kill them too..what about ram mountain sheep...best to catch them in rut to prove your justification for "harvesting" the damn vile things..

OK..look...going out your home door has risks..going into the woods or mountains can increase the risks...it is indeed sad that anyone was injured or in this case died...but kill the ram? Geeez. Seriously what poses the greatest threat: Hunters to wildlife or wildlife to humans?

Just my views and not wishing to stir up a useless shit storm..

[guns_equal_freedom]

Originally Posted by Hammer

It is now legal to carry in NPs. I forget the rules. I'd have to look them up, which I would if that's where I were going.

Damn shame they don't allow goats to be hunted in the NP. Then they won't get acclimated to humans.

I don't know that shooting the goat will help tell biologists why it killed, (one news story said that) but one thing is for sure- it will prevent future occurrences with that particular goat.
Anyone who thinks the death penalty for humans is not effective needs to think about the above. It works the same way, and then some.

Thanks Hammer.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Wallowa

Wishing to stir up a useless shit storm..

There- fixt

And good luck on that one.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Heymarz

Then why not kill all the goats now, you know, to stop any future incidents?

So, what yer sayin' is, that since your original statement had no foundation in fact and no way to justify it, you will now resort to ridiculous hyperbole in order to throw the whole thread into mayhem?
Just wanted to be clear on this point.

[250senuf]

Originally Posted by Heymarz

So it's the goats fault the human was in his turf? Check.

The goats in that park are not natives, they were trapped elsewhere and put there: invasive species springs to mind.

[ClineDesign]

Bees injure far more people in national parks every year than animals. I suggest we all start carrying bee bee guns.
Thank Obama for signing the declaration repealing Reagan's law banning guns in national parks.

[beamertwin]

You can carry in National Parks if you follow your states' carry regulations. It is still a chargable offence to discharge your firearm in a National Park.
The hiker who shot and killed a brown bear in Denali this past summer was not charged....and got his 45 returned.

[Heymarz]

Originally Posted by Hammer

So, what yer sayin' is, that since your original statement had no foundation in fact and no way to justify it, you will now resort to ridiculous hyperbole in order to throw the whole thread into mayhem?
Just wanted to be clear on this point.

Let's see. Goat kills dude, they put down the goat even though the guy was intruding on it's territory and somehow that makes sense. Seems like I have the facts pretty straight. Same deal when that dumbass went up to Alaska to "live" with the bears. Got his ass ate and the solution was to go in and kill the bear. I don't understand that logic.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Heymarz

I don't understand that logic.

And you've made it patently clear that you refuse to understand the logic. It's not that you "can't" it's that you don't because you won't. You refuse. That's perfectly fine with me. I run into folk all the time that stare the facts straight in the face and refuse to accept them.
When you take your refusal to accept and make ridiculous statements, I'll point them out so you look a fool to all who read, however.
You may want to consider that when you say

Originally Posted by Heymarz

Then why not kill all the goats now, you know, to stop any future incidents?

[Heymarz]

Originally Posted by Hammer

And you've made it patently clear that you refuse to understand the logic. It's not that you "can't" it's that you don't because you won't. You refuse. That's perfectly fine with me. I run into folk all the time that stare the facts straight in the face and refuse to accept them.
When you take your refusal to accept and make ridiculous statements, I'll point them out so you look a fool to all who read, however.
You may want to consider that when you say

Speaking of hyperbole

I know you don't like me, that's cool, don't really care either, but my question remains: why did the goat have to be put down? Same with that bear way the hell and gone in the middle of nowhere? And just to totally fuck your mind up, I'm all for putting dangerous animals down that encroach on human space like campgrounds, houses, etc.

[WetSideRider]

One hiker killed by a goat is statistically insignificant, except to the hiker, his friends and family. One goat killed by the rangers is statistically insignificant, except to the goat's clan, I suppose. There's plenty more hikers and plenty more goats, and all of 'em are going outta here toes up, sooner or later, in an interesting fashion that makes the newspapers, or a boring way. Do ya think maybe they killed the last goat in the Olympics or sumpin?

I'm liking the "his territory" comment too. I'm guessing there is some sorta libertarian implication here that it's just okay to be belligerent, man or beast, as long as you are in "your territory". As I am a bicyclist, I guess it's okay to be run off the road by a car, since most drivers think that's "their territory", and they have about as much sense as the goat in question has on the topic of territory definition.

My personal feeling is that the biggest SOB get's to call the territory. Incumbent on that SOB is to make sure it's a correct call. Ram attempts to butt armed hiker and doesn't live to tell the tale. Other observant rams get the message and avoid bipeds, who might be armed. This, to me, works way better than a sign for hikers reading something like "beware of goats" as a way of marking territory in a crowded National Park.

Of course, this particular approach might have spotty application in Alaska, where peashooters might not even slow down the SOB who's calling the territory there. Visualize big Grizzly picture here.

This is fun, let's do it some more.

Thanks, Gums.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by WetSideRider

I'm liking the "his territory" comment too. I'm guessing there is some sorta libertarian implication here that it's just okay to be belligerent, man or beast, as long as you are in "your territory". As I am a bicyclist, I guess it's okay to be run off the road by a car, since most drivers think that's "their territory", and they have about as much sense as the goat in question has on the topic of territory definition.

My personal feeling is that the biggest SOB get's to call the territory. Incumbent on that SOB is to make sure it's a correct call. Ram attempts to butt armed hiker and doesn't live to tell the tale. Other observant rams get the message and avoid bipeds, who might be armed. This, to me, works way better than a sign for hikers reading something like "beware of goats" as a way of marking territory in a crowded National Park.

Of course, this particular approach might have spotty application in Alaska, where peashooters might not even slow down the SOB who's calling the territory there. Visualize big Grizzly picture here.

This is fun, let's do it some more.

Thanks, Gums.

Thank you, WSR, that sums it up quite nicely.
"His territory" indeed. It was a National Park. NPs are paid for by the citizens of the USA. Tho there may some who look like goats, or smell like goats, none in fact are of the genus Capra. So, territorially, it was the ground of the hiker. It is MY ground. Hiker lost the battle. Goat lost the war.
And, WetSideRider, I carry a piece big enough for griz, too. So if that be the battle, so be it.
Isn't this a Darwinian playout? The strong survive.

And Heymarz, I don't dislike you personally. It's the BS I don't care for. I do realize I'm not gonna change you. I hope you realize I won't let the BS go unchallenged.

[WetSideRider]

Oh, and there's nothing personal in any of this. Sometimes we need to be reminded that this is for fun, like debating at the tavern. I'm okay if you hug Bambi or shoot at him, really. Just don't mistake me for Bambi in either case.

[FLYING EYEBALL]

great thread



not

[Hammer]

This happened to me a few years ago. I'll check the EXIF data in the pics and see if I can tell what year, anyway.
There were 4 of us hiking up to Cascade Pass, destination Stehekin. The last mile is a long narrow talus slope with a narrow approach to the pass. I was leading. A billy goat was right in the trail, clearly belligerant. It took me a while to get him to give way. Hikers above and below were stuck until we cleared the trail. Eventually it was OK and we had lunch at the pass. It happened again before we left. The goat was quite territorial, and only a good deal of coaxing got it to move. If it had charged and ramed someone, they could have fallen quite a ways.
Now to find the pics









This simply to say that goats, while they may seem cuddly and playful, can be hazardous if they decide to ram you. We all got thru the pass just fine that day. The landslide that missed us by 5 minutes was a good deal more dangerous.
I'm no good with EXIF data from Photobucket.

edit:I found the original files. July 23rd, 2005.