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Old 10-20-2010, 11:30 AM   #16
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumkin640
I have stalling issues with a BMW X-challenge recently purchased and the dealer is telling me the same BS that its the fuel.
The other EFI bikes and boat outboards we have don't have the issues with E10 that the BMW does.

How is it 3 other EFI bikes and 2 EFI boat motors are all running reasonably fine on the same fuel?
Not saying E10 is without problems, but everything else we own is running on it without notable problems, but the BMW is not.
Pumkin:
Question: did you fill all the equipment up from the same pump on the same day?
I'm not trying to It's meant as an honest question. Every tanker load of fuel delivered to the station could have different characteristics....
Most of the E10 appears to be passable ... an occasional load apparently really sucks...
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:18 PM   #17
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nope...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
Pumkin:
Question: did you fill all the equipment up from the same pump on the same day?
I'm not trying to It's meant as an honest question. Every tanker load of fuel delivered to the station could have different characteristics....
Most of the E10 appears to be passable ... an occasional load apparently really sucks...
Nope.. I typically go to the shell station in town... So one tank of gas who cause this issue then??
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Old 10-20-2010, 02:26 PM   #18
xxxshiftxxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsnqust
Nope.. I typically go to the shell station in town... So one tank of gas who cause this issue then??
Just picked up a 2010 f800, last week. The owner of the dealership told me to avoid SHELL GASOLINE like the black plague. He said thay the nitrogen destroys the fuel pump, will make it flake inside. Just FYI from the southwest.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:20 PM   #19
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsnqust
Nope.. I typically go to the shell station in town... So one tank of gas who cause this issue then??
yes... one tank of crappy gas can be all it takes.... and it could very much be just bad luck.

I walked in to gas station a while back and the water alarm behind the counter was going off ... (all the tanks are instrumented, and if water level in the tanks gets too high then alarm sounds -- it is supposed to mean "panic" --- the gas is potentially contaminated - people may be pumping part water/part gasoline into their cars).

I asked the clerk and the answer was "yeah ... damn thing has been going off for two days ... I called the boss but he don't seem to care"

I don't want to point fingers, but more Shell gas stations have been "named" more often than any other brand as purveyors of bad gas just based on the threads I am watching....
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxshiftxxx
Just picked up a 2010 f800, last week. The owner of the dealership told me to avoid SHELL GASOLINE like the black plague. He said thay the nitrogen destroys the fuel pump, will make it flake inside. Just FYI from the southwest.
Sadly only 3,700 miles on my 800 but whenever I leave home I always fill up at my local Shell. No problems yet but I also throw in a bit of SeaFoam now and then. If the dealer has proof then Shell would be liable. I think it's misdirection ... but my mileage always varies.
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:31 PM   #21
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This cracks me up...kind of. A couple of months ago I was reading that BMW had an unofficial short list of stations in the US it recommends using if at all possible...and Shell was #1! I have been using Shell ever since with no ill effects.

Whatever the case, this isn't Beserkistan. BMW needs to engineer, produce, and replace a fuel tank and delivery system that copes with average fuel in the marketed area. They owe us a bike that works or a black and white list of fuel sources to avoid at all costs.

Let's see some integrity and guts, BMW! I have grown tired of coddling this excuse for an adventure bike.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:02 PM   #22
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmclamore
This cracks me up...kind of. A couple of months ago I was reading that BMW had an unofficial short list of stations in the US it recommends using if at all possible...and Shell was #1! I have been using Shell ever since with no ill effects.

Whatever the case, this isn't Beserkistan. BMW needs to engineer, produce, and replace a fuel tank and delivery system that copes with average fuel in the marketed area. They owe us a bike that works or a black and white list of fuel sources to avoid at all costs.

Let's see some integrity and guts, BMW! I have grown tired of coddling this excuse for an adventure bike.
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
We should absolutely not have to do this. This is bullshit, BMW should make a fuel delivery system that can withstand crappy gas or 10% ethanol for the life of the bike. We should not have to carry a bottle of fuel system cleaner everywhere we go. Look at the 12GS, you can put crap gas in that thing over and over and it will keep on tickin'. It's been proven on countless round the world excursions. BMW should be able to do the same with the F8. It's a simple fix.
I know, I know, I know. I'm with you & I don't even own an F800!

But I have seen the effect of this swill passing as gasoline in the carb of my son's Suzuki RM85. The ethanol (+ the other additives for low emissions) leave a residue in the bottom of the carb, gum up the jets, and are hard on the rubber float stop. If the bike is going to sit for more than a week after riding, the carb is drained, then removed and cleaned.

I can't take the chance of my kid not clearing a double and getting seriously hurt because of a fuel related stumble / miss on the run-up to a jump.

Seems like the additives are highly hydroscopic, and as others have said, one bad tank can wreck havoc. There's no consistency either, even from the same station.

Can't wait until 15% ethanol blends show up. In my case, maybe I'll just buy VP Race fuel and mix in some creamed corn in with the Motul 800 to be "green"....
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:30 PM   #24
Indy Unlimited
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Seafoam at 1 oz per gallon works fantastically for our ethanol fuels in Colorado! 16,000. miles wihout issues since I replaced my injectors at 1,200. miles. Seafoam lubrication qualities in the additive prevents our aluminum fuel pump from corrosion!
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:07 PM   #25
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how often?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited
Seafoam at 1 oz per gallon works fantastically for our ethanol fuels in Colorado! 16,000. miles wihout issues since I replaced my injectors at 1,200. miles. Seafoam lubrication qualities in the additive prevents our aluminum fuel pump from corrosion!
How often are you putting in the seafoam? thx!
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:19 PM   #26
ebrabaek
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I use techron every 3`rd tank full.... Seafoam....good as well....

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Old 10-22-2010, 05:06 PM   #27
raider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmclamore
This cracks me up...kind of. A couple of months ago I was reading that BMW had an unofficial short list of stations in the US it recommends using if at all possible...and Shell was #1! I have been using Shell ever since with no ill effects.

Whatever the case, this isn't Beserkistan. BMW needs to engineer, produce, and replace a fuel tank and delivery system that copes with average fuel in the marketed area. They owe us a bike that works or a black and white list of fuel sources to avoid at all costs.

Let's see some integrity and guts, BMW! I have grown tired of coddling this excuse for an adventure bike.
I see your point, but I'll jump on the "defend BMW" bandwagon. As time goes on, more and more bikes will opt for ultra-lean, ultra-fine fuel injectors that are far more prone to gunking than they were before. It's partly to do with emissions control, partly due to the American obsession with gas prices, and partly due to the mania (evident even in this very forum) with motorcycles delivering more power with every new model - if they don't, the bike gets panned. Pop on over to Beasts and read the thread about Honda's new (and very capable) Transalp if you want to see what I mean. (And you wonder why they're reluctant to bring bikes like the Tenere, Transalp etc to the US!)

It's also physically impossible to create a "black and white list of fuel sources". They do their best now: 95RON minimum [or 91RON in some markets], zero ethanol content. It's in the handbook.

In any event, you're kidding yourself if you think an all-electronic, 200kg+, fuel-injected GS is a third-world bike. If you want a bike that can reliably handle the third world, go out and buy a DR650. Right now, before they're discontinued.

Or buy one of these, which is what they actually use in the third world:

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Old 10-22-2010, 05:07 PM   #28
The Griz
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+1 on the Seafoam. I, however, have switched to Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner since it's the same fuel system cleaner stuff BMW sells. Seafoam rocks too though.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:10 PM   #29
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raider
I see your point, but I'll jump on the "defend BMW" bandwagon. As time goes on, more and more bikes will opt for ultra-lean, ultra-fine fuel injectors that are far more prone to gunking than they were before. It's partly to do with emissions control, partly due to the American obsession with gas prices, and partly due to the mania (evident even in this very forum) with motorcycles delivering more power with every new model - if they don't, the bike gets panned. Pop on over to Beasts and read the thread about Honda's new (and very capable) Transalp if you want to see what I mean. (And you wonder why they're reluctant to bring bikes like the Tenere, Transalp etc to the US!)

It's also physically impossible to create a "black and white list of fuel sources". They do their best now: 95RON minimum [or 91RON in some markets], zero ethanol content. It's in the handbook.

In any event, you're kidding yourself if you think an all-electronic, 200kg+, fuel-injected GS is a third-world bike. If you want a bike that can reliably handle the third world, go out and buy a DR650. Right now, before they're discontinued.

Or buy one of these, which is what they actually use in the third world:

I disagree. The R1100GS, R1150GS, and R1200GS have been circumnavigating the world for years, using shit gas and running beautifully while doing so.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:23 PM   #30
EnderTheX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I disagree. The R1100GS, R1150GS, and R1200GS have been circumnavigating the world for years, using shit gas and running beautifully while doing so.
Shit gas is different from ethanol laden gas. Ethanol is the problem, not shit.

I'm with raider, this bike is sensitive due to the hunt for good power and great fuel economy. If people can't live with the consequences then tough, get another bike. If you are scared to do an around the world trip, don't be because they don't mix their shit like we do, at least they tell you if they do. I will happily use some fuel cleaner while running my bike in the states (no stations around me sell pure fuel ).

Facts:

- Ethanol eats aluminum.
- Most gas stations' gas contain ethanol.
- Ethanol concentration varies and can be extremely high (20-30%) on rare occasions at gas stations that don't give a damn.
- This thread is


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