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Old 10-29-2010, 06:19 AM   #91
JoelWisman
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The inlet filter is just a screen and meant only to stop things large enough that allowed to pass, could jam the pump.

The fuel filter is considered to be integral with the fuel pump, though in truth it can be removed. BMW considers the filter permanent and does not sell it separate from the pump.

In any case, it is there, between pump and injectors, just not fine enough to stop aluminum oxide, is anything?
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:44 AM   #92
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Shouldn't be too hard to fit an automotive style EFI filter somewhere in the line then? You can get high pressure hose clamps that only cost a couple of bucks.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:45 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
In any case, it is there, between pump and injectors, just not fine enough to stop aluminum oxide, is anything?
Apparently the fuel injectors are. Now we just need to figure out how to use this to our benefit. I think a bank of injectors spraying into a secondary tank feeding into the single injector should do the trick. Don't forget the necessary sensors to tell us when the injecto-filters are clogged.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:54 AM   #94
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Also snapped a picture of my spare pump. As you can see there is a sock on the inlet and then another filter in the cap of the assembly.

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Old 10-29-2010, 07:43 AM   #95
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Thanks for that photoe .... it would sure seem that a filter of the size of that big silver can could be designed to capture even very very very small particles -- given the (low) required flow rate and the (hopefully) small loading factor over the life of the filter?

Now I am wondering if the injectors on failed bikes are really "clogged" with debris, or if the mode of failure was really corrosion-related instead?
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:57 AM   #96
Indy Unlimited
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Clogged with debris. I have my old ones as spares. They have been soaked in Seafoam creep for weeks and cleaned with air gun.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:28 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited
Clogged with debris. I have my old ones as spares. They have been soaked in Seafoam creep for weeks and cleaned with air gun.
So you would conclude that the big impressive looking filter on the outlet side of the pump isn't cutting it eh?
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:35 PM   #98
EnderTheX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
So you would conclude that the big impressive looking filter on the outlet side of the pump isn't cutting it eh?
That white filter is the inlet filter, I can't put my finger on exactly where the in-line filter but I would think the in-line filter is the most critical. Edit: most critical for preventing aluminum particles from doing their thing.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:05 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderTheX
That white filter is the inlet filter, I can't put my finger on exactly where the in-line filter but I would think the in-line filter is the most critical. Edit: most critical for preventing aluminum particles from doing their thing.
I havn't seen one in person, but was "assuming"
That the white pillow looking thing on the bottom was the inlet filter,
the cylinderical thing right above it was the actual pump,
and the silver can right under the mounting ring with the hose going into the bottom of it was a filter on the "outlet" / high pressure side of the pump???

Or is the big silver can actually the pump?
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:17 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
I havn't seen one in person, but was "assuming"
That the white pillow looking thing on the bottom was the inlet filter,
the cylinderical thing right above it was the actual pump,
and the silver can right under the mounting ring with the hose going into the bottom of it was a filter on the "outlet" / high pressure side of the pump???

Or is the big silver can actually the pump?
Be careful you done it before Oh yea and watch out for that acid thats eating all of the aluminum in there
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:25 PM   #101
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
I havn't seen one in person, but was "assuming"
That the white pillow looking thing on the bottom was the inlet filter,
the cylinderical thing right above it was the actual pump,
and the silver can right under the mounting ring with the hose going into the bottom of it was a filter on the "outlet" / high pressure side of the pump???

Or is the big silver can actually the pump?
No, you had it right the first time.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:02 PM   #102
JRWooden
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Lucas:

Thanks!

Alas, now I'm confused ...
While I realize injectors are very sensitive to debris, but it would seem to me that a filter of that size could be designed to filter almost down to the micron level .... so that anything (solid) that did get through the filter would be too small to clog the injector?

I now wonder if the injectors are getting clogged by disolved crap that makes in through the filter in-solution, then clogs the injectors as the fuel flashes off leaving the solids behind on the nozzle?

Once again ... there is at least a 50/50 chance I'm still talking outta my ass here.............

JRWooden screwed with this post 10-30-2010 at 04:10 PM
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:36 PM   #103
JoelWisman
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It's a 5 micron filter, I am told.

I dont know the chemestry of it, but aluminum oxide seems to break down very small and stick to other things, building up further down stream.

I think it is similiar to rusting steel. If you have a rusty steel tank, fine rust will go through any filter and gunk up the carburetor.

For sure, some injectors are more sensitive then others.

In the BMW line up, R12 bikes seem to have the most problems.

Also, I am told, injector pentle seats and needles can be etched by bad fuel, allowing gunk to stick and plug them more easily.

The only proffesional experience I have is with volvo car corporation and BMW motorcycles. Both are impacted by bad fuel. Both use Bosch fuel injectors, as do dozens of other manufactures. Both volvo and BMW have far higher incidence of fuel injector plugging and fuel pump in the USA then virtually anywhere else in the world.

Are the injectors on these vehicles weaker then others for no good reason? I don't know as I only have experience with volvo cars and BMW motorcycles.

Does fuel in the USA cause problems out of proportion to other countries? Yes it does.

Does techron concentrate and sea foam help reduce damage? Yes it does.

That's everything I know on the subject.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:57 PM   #104
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Thanks Joel!

An ounce or two of Techron at almost every fillup will be my plan ...
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:13 AM   #105
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I really appreciate everyone's posts on this thread. I am reading with great interest and wish I had more to contribute at this time. My clutch hand is currently bound up in a huge cast that is causing my bike to be idle for the next 6 weeks at least. I managed to treat the fuel in my tank with both a fuel stabilizer and Techron last weekend. I ran the bike for a while and now she sits.

Does anyone have any further advice on steps I can take during this down time to avoid fuel related problems? I plan on starting her up and running the engine until the fan kicks on every couple of weeks. Good? Bad?

George @ BUA will be inspecting the bike in a few weeks for any other "hidden" damage from the crash so she will be ready to roll as soon as I am.
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