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Old 12-08-2010, 04:18 AM   #31
Ceri JC
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Originally Posted by EnderTheX View Post
EDIT: The BMW CD has exploded diagrams and CAD models which I will take over pictures any day.
I agree. There are other advantages and disadvantage of Haynes vs the official manual, but when it comes to pictures a CAD drawing is vastly preferable for most things.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:15 AM   #32
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The BMW manual is good if you are changing parts. Good photos and clear instructions on how to do it.

It is bad if you are trying to diagnose a problem. The engine management system is complex, but no electrical resistance values are given. No cam shim measurements are given.

It requires a laptop to accompany you if you want this info on the road. I find it difficult to search. I did not know what a Bowden cable was.

Can't compare it to a paper manual, but the CD is an obvious translation from another language and has its peculiarities.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:30 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post

Can't compare it to a paper manual, but the CD is an obvious translation from another language and has its peculiarities.
For some reason, you get this a lot with German (and Germanic languages in general such as Dutch, Afrikaans, etc). In order to get the most readable translation, you are only supposed to ever translate into your first language. IE an English person, who has become fluent in German, should read the original text and translate it to English.

I notice the same peculiarities of Germanic-English in the Touratech and Wunderlich catalogues, BMW manuals and parts guides. For example, a preference for using the word, "schedule" in the now largely redundant (amongst first-language English speakers) manner to mean "inventory". Technically it's valid, but it sounds outdated and unnatural.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:45 AM   #34
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I believe many German companies intentionally provide poor translated versions of their catalogs, manuals, etc. in order to sound "endearingly" German for marketing purposes. I can't fathom a 1st world industrial nation that issues so many poor translations by accident.

Chinese restaurant menus translated by family kids are one thing but official publications from Germany? You know damn well they are more than capable of translating more accurately.

It sounds cute and funny so we feel safer that they are just a little incompetent at something. I don't believe it for a second!
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by lmclamore View Post
I believe many German companies intentionally provide poor translated versions of their catalogs, manuals, etc. in order to sound "endearingly" German for marketing purposes. I can't fathom a 1st world industrial nation that issues so many poor translations by accident.

Chinese restaurant menus translated by family kids are one thing but official publications from Germany? You know damn well they are more than capable of translating more accurately.

It sounds cute and funny so we feel safer that they are just a little incompetent at something. I don't believe it for a second!
It's weird, my girlfriend is Dutch. She speaks English better than most native speakers, she is also a published writer in English. Even she uses those weird little Germanic flourishes occasionally.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:05 AM   #36
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Oh really - would the first-language English speakers that you refer to be English-English speakers or the American-English speakers who have bastardised the language as well as not being able to spell either.
Hailing from the UK, I would of course be referring to a native English speaker and hence a British person. ;)

Perhaps I should clarify the usage of "schedule" I was referring to. Those companies and my other half use it to prefix a list of goods (inventory), rather than an "order to do things in", as you mention. I agree that in this context, you are correct, it's fine. The sort of thing I'm questioning is, "included in the schedule are: one headlight protector, two spacers and two mounting screws". To me, that's a 'contents' or 'inventory'.

I suppose it's natural that outdated concepts or usages of words linger longer in second languages. It's not just the time taken for people to adopt the new usage, but also the language-learning literature, tapes, CDS, etc. to run a full cycle, be updated and modernised and a new generation of people to come along and learn from the new material (as few people who are already fluent revisit this). For example, in my own faltering attempts at learning Dutch, I regularly get told that I am saying things in a very old fashioned way. I pointed out the book I was using was ten years old, only to be told, "No, we mean like 40-50 years ago!"

In all seriousness, you guys as a nation are some of the best linguists in the world and I am ashamed of how poorly I, never mind most Brits and Americans speak "foreign" languages. You have demonstrated that you in particular definitely have l33t skillz in English.

Even if I do disagree with your usage of "schedule"

When these become the sort of things we're picky over, it's pretty clear that we don't have much to complain about. It is odd (not a problem, just interesting) that this is fairly prevalent in automotive applications. Whereas the similarly technical documentation for, say, music software; an area where I use a lot of German products, generally has absolutely flawless English.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:48 AM   #37
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The BMW RepROM is fine if, like a BMW dealer, you are simply going to replace parts. It tells you nothing about how things work, how to diagnose faults (without a diagnostics computer), or how to repair them. In fact, apart from the inclusion of torque values and fluid types for each application, I would say it is pretty useless. Anyone who knows how to hold a spanner will be able to work out how to replace parts without the use of the manual. that said, I haven't seen the Haynes manual, so I can't comment on how useful it might be.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:15 AM   #38
Ceri JC
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Just got the Haynes manual for my birthday. From some friends who came to rescue me when I crashed my bike. Very funny, you FFs and I really appreciate it.

I've had a quick flick through and first impressions is that it follows the same format of pretty much all their multi-model motorbike manuals in the past decade. Real acid test will be once I've used it on the bike and in particular, when I compare a particular job in the official shop manual and the Haynes.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:24 AM   #39
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nf.........

Numb screwed with this post 02-28-2011 at 12:56 PM
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
It's weird, my girlfriend is Dutch...
What's weird; that she's Dutch or that you've got a girlfriend?
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:40 AM   #41
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on-sale...

These folks have it for $29 + shipping.

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/bmw...ir-manual.html

I have no relationship to them ... other than that I just became a customer
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:29 PM   #42
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Thanks JRWooden! I just ordered mine
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:12 PM   #43
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I ordered mine from there 5 days ago and it's on back order. :ymca
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:01 PM   #44
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Backordered...

Yeah I just got a note saying they are out of stock but

"expect to complete your order in approximately 4-7 days."
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:02 PM   #45
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Yeah... same email here, too.
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