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Old 08-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #1741
tahoeacr
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For those that have wide-bands here is a chart to give you an idea where to start.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:27 AM   #1742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
I got your map from Chris. I converted it to an 07/08 format. It has a few flat spots in the 3200rpm 10% tps range on my bike but I suspect that is because my butterflies are out. Also at 100% TPS 3-5k it was very rich. If you look at the 2nd throttle map in these ranges it backs up the fact that their there for keeping up the velocity of the air charge. Did your tuner tune each cylinder? I'm looking at the front cylinder right now. Nice closed loop area. Should be good for 50+mpg on the highway. If it works this well on my bike , must be the shizzle on yours.

After I put my 2nd throttle plates back in and check both cylinders I will send it back to Chris so he has a map for 07/08 bikes. I'll just be looking for lean spots and checking ignition timing with my knock sensor to make sure it will be ok for bikes it wasn't mapped for .
Each cylinder's map was changed a bit but not much from the original Akra map. I don't have a ton of tuning experience so my main goal was to ensure the CPR was not going to damage the motor. The bike does run very well now Could it run better? Maybe if one wanted to spend a bunch more time. I'm not getting 50 mpg though, more around 43-45 but that could be my gearing 16/45.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:05 AM   #1743
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08 SD-R motor in 07 Adventure

Unfortunately I had to do a heart transplant on my Adventure this summer :(. The only suitable engine I could find was out of an 08 SD-R. I got the complete wiring harness with the donor engine along with the ECU. The only differences between the engines were the addition of a third wire (dead ground) on the coil and a third wire on the temp gauge at the throttle bodies. I modified the existing harness to accommodate the ignition coils and kept the original two wire temp gauge from the Adventure. I am still using the throttlr-bodies off of the Adventure which are a smaller diameter than the SD-R.

Long story short, the ECU from the donor engine caused many difficulties on initial startup. When I plugged in the bikes stock ECU, problems all disappeared! What I'm wondering is where to start as far as maps go? This is obviously a unique situation and I am by no means expecting perfection, but just curious which would be the best map to start with. I'm pretty sure I want to stay with the maps for the Adventure as the bike ran very poorly with the map on the SD-R ECU. I have removed the SAS and butterflies as well as adding a DNA filter and opened the exhaust with Lexx pipes. My main concerns are with the smaller TB's. I'm not sure if they will provide enough fuel, but my initialmath says they should.

Any thoughts?

Alan
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:02 AM   #1744
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rellik View Post
Unfortunately I had to do a heart transplant on my Adventure this summer :(. The only suitable engine I could find was out of an 08 SD-R. I got the complete wiring harness with the donor engine along with the ECU. The only differences between the engines were the addition of a third wire (dead ground) on the coil and a third wire on the temp gauge at the throttle bodies. I modified the existing harness to accommodate the ignition coils and kept the original two wire temp gauge from the Adventure. I am still using the throttlr-bodies off of the Adventure which are a smaller diameter than the SD-R.

Long story short, the ECU from the donor engine caused many difficulties on initial startup. When I plugged in the bikes stock ECU, problems all disappeared! What I'm wondering is where to start as far as maps go? This is obviously a unique situation and I am by no means expecting perfection, but just curious which would be the best map to start with. I'm pretty sure I want to stay with the maps for the Adventure as the bike ran very poorly with the map on the SD-R ECU. I have removed the SAS and butterflies as well as adding a DNA filter and opened the exhaust with Lexx pipes. My main concerns are with the smaller TB's. I'm not sure if they will provide enough fuel, but my initialmath says they should.

Any thoughts?

Alan
Bore out the throttle bodies?
I've seen it mentioned on the SD site. I believe
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #1745
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Originally Posted by gixxersteph View Post
Bore out the throttle bodies?
I've seen it mentioned on the SD site. I believe
It a good thought, but I'm fine with the throttle bodies. I'm certainly not looking for MORE power, just concerned about making sure the mapping is providing the right fueling across the RPM range.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:12 AM   #1746
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Originally Posted by Rellik View Post
It a good thought, but I'm fine with the throttle bodies. I'm certainly not looking for MORE power, just concerned about making sure the mapping is providing the right fueling across the RPM range.
I understand about not needing more power but it would make maps available for your use.

Perhaps check the SD site for someone else using a similar set up.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #1747
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Originally Posted by gixxersteph View Post
I understand about not needing more power but it would make maps available for your use.

Perhaps check the SD site for someone else using a similar set up.
I'm concerned that because the donor ECU was having troubles running the bike that there might be some sensor input that was crossing over wrong. That's where my thinking that sticking with a modified Adventure map might be better.

I'm hoping someone knows more about the commonalities between the different years and builds of the Adventure and the SD-R to suggest what might be a good Adventure specific map to start with.

I'm struggling with finding reliable information on what Adventure year might have started to use the hotter cams and bigger jugs from the SD-R bikes, if any, or when the power output started to get bumped up in the Adventures.

Any help is good help, thanks Gixxersteph!
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:50 AM   #1748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rellik View Post
I'm concerned that because the donor ECU was having troubles running the bike that there might be some sensor input that was crossing over wrong. That's where my thinking that sticking with a modified Adventure map might be better.

I'm hoping someone knows more about the commonalities between the different years and builds of the Adventure and the SD-R to suggest what might be a good Adventure specific map to start with.

I'm struggling with finding reliable information on what Adventure year might have started to use the hotter cams and bigger jugs from the SD-R bikes, if any, or when the power output started to get bumped up in the Adventures.

Any help is good help, thanks Gixxersteph!
Forgot the ECU issue. Internals on a SDR engine are different than SD or later ADVs but I don't know about the ECUs and sensors.

I started a discussion over at the SD:
http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewt...hp?f=5&t=20097
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #1749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rellik View Post
I'm hoping someone knows more about the commonalities between the different years and builds of the Adventure and the SD-R to suggest what might be a good Adventure specific map to start with.

I'm struggling with finding reliable information on what Adventure year might have started to use the hotter cams and bigger jugs from the SD-R bikes, if any, or when the power output started to get bumped up in the Adventures.

Any help is good help, thanks Gixxersteph!

Check part numbers. I doubt sensors are any different. SDR has bigger valves also. The ECU's are the same. So what you have is an engine designed with better flow(bigger TB's, bigger intake valves, bigger cams and bigger exhaust) now choke off with smaller throttle bodies and exhaust. Also the Adventure maps have more ignition advance. I think you are in uncharted territory. Doubt any map will work well. Bazzazz, custom tune on a dyno or buy your own wide-band. Start with an Adv Akra map and put the butterflies back in. Most likely have alot of stumbling around 4,500-7,500 rpm where the cams come on.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:30 AM   #1750
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Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
Check part numbers. I doubt sensors are any different. SDR has bigger valves also. The ECU's are the same. So what you have is an engine designed with better flow(bigger TB's, bigger intake valves, bigger cams and bigger exhaust) now choke off with smaller throttle bodies and exhaust. Also the Adventure maps have more ignition advance. I think you are in uncharted territory. Doubt any map will work well. Bazzazz, custom tune on a dyno or buy your own wide-band. Start with an Adv Akra map and put the butterflies back in. Most likely have alot of stumbling around 4,500-7,500 rpm where the cams come on.
In truth, I was expecting a lot of issues as well, but I get strong power everywhere with no indications of rough, jerky or otherwise poor running. My major concerns revolve around lean running at the top end. I'm quite surprised how little issue I am experiencing in the "seat of the pants" feel over all!
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:54 AM   #1751
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Wow, I finally made it through!!
There is so much great info on here, but also lots of unanswered and unaddressed questions.... at least in my head!
It's not easy to suck it all in and retain it.

So, as I mentioned before, 2007 w/ Leo's. That's the only engine mod. Was running the stock map, and it was so incredibly lean it backfired like crazy. I loaded up the Akro map w/ the 02's off. Obviously richened it to hell. No backfiring but my mileage now sits around 30mpg average. That's pretty bad. The worst I saw at points was 22MPG!!! Oh, and my front header at least is turning purple I thought this was caused by being to lean? Did make the throttle smooth as all hell though.


So, right now, I took the same map and and turned on the 02's. On this trip in particular, I was dealing wtih a lot of elevation changes, and I could see at points were thing were starting to lean out. I really don't understand the reason for disabling the 02's either? I guess I understand how they contribute to a jerky throttle (correct me if I'm wrong, disabling them disables the L [closed loop] mapping) by over fueling during the switch points, but if everything is mapped properly it should still be smooth. I like the idea that my bike can learn and adapt to my changes in atmosphere, and this is a technology I'd like to retain. Primarily though, I'm looking for more MPG. We'll see how it does over the next two days.

I've also downloaded a copy of MotorOlly's map...
From his initial descriptions when he first posted up about it, he said he just trimmed the stock F tables by 10% from (i think it was) 2000k to 6000k. Now looking at the downloaded version, it looks like there has been some other changes as well. MotorOlly, perhaps you could elaborate? It looks like you've also changed the idle. Why? Your map notes state this,
Quote:
idle lowered and leaned 6000/1 to 1600/50 by 10% F table
also 250/6000 to 530/1600 by 10%
but I'm having a little trouble deciphering what it means. Forgive my ignorance, but if you could elaborate on exactally what shifted that would be great!

If enabling the 02 sensors turns my throttle back to shit, even if it improves my fuel economy, I think I'm going to give the leaned version of the Akro map a try.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shootis View Post
I have a map that works very nicely on my 2007 bike and I got 42 mpg on the last tank with mixed back roads driving. I have Leo Vince mufflers and have done all of the usual de-smog items.

It has very little, if any snatch and works well with no surprises. It has the values from the 2011 Euro map with the butterflies at 25% min and the F/L values set to 0 above 2000 rpm.

Another Inmate was kind enough to share the base map (with the Euro settings) with me and I made the above tweaks to it.

PM me for a copy.

Thanks,

Shootis
And this!! Shootis, I don't know how on earth I missed this, but I would love to snag a copy of this from you. I read a bit about people pulling newer bike map pieces onto our older bikes, and I read about the SD cam changes, etc... but am a bit uninformed about what comes with what.
For us without the SD cams, are we to only pull the F/L maps? Looks like you also changed the secondary map as well by disabling the butterflies about 25% TPS? And disabled the L map everywhere but down below 2000RPM correct? Before you made the shifts to these maps, did you copy that data over too? I'll shoot you a PM with my email. Thanks!

And if we install SD cams, does that then make the newer maps completely compatible? Ignition maps and everything now apply right? Unless someone can recommend another tuner in the Northeast, from what I've read seems Power-Tripp is the only one on the east coast that is reputable. Probably cheaper for me to throw in the cams and use one of his maps for the newer bikes instead of hauling my girl down south! Plus an extra 10HP up top, sold.


I know that's a ton of questions, but just trying to wrap my head around everything I can. Thanks!!!!!
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:12 PM   #1752
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Originally Posted by jconly View Post
Wow, I finally made it through!!
And disabled the L map everywhere but down below 2000RPM correct?

Quote:
idle lowered and leaned 6000/1 to 1600/50 by 10% F table
also 250/6000 to 530/1600 by 10%
One thing I can answer, the 6000/1 to 1600/50 is the 'range' that he modified in the fuel table. On the fuel spreadsheet grid, all the ranges starting at the corner 6000 rpm/1% throttle, down to the other corner 1600rpm/50% throttle.

Another Question: When exactly is it running closed loop vs. open loop? The F-L switch sets when it transfers from L-pressure/rpm to F-%throttle/rpm. Does it run closed loop when in the L range?
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:34 PM   #1753
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Reading through this thread is very tough, mostly because of the variable terminology used as we all learned about this great tool. Some of that is because of the scarce documentation on what each major input does and the inter-relations between each one.

Would it be possible to create a wiki for TuneECU? If someone, with better management skills than I have, were to create the format, I'd love to contribute.

Maybe we could just start a new thread and edit the first postings while discussing them later in the thread?

Thoughts?
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:56 PM   #1754
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Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
Reading through this thread is very tough, mostly because of the variable terminology used as we all learned about this great tool. Some of that is because of the scarce documentation on what each major input does and the inter-relations between each one.

Would it be possible to create a wiki for TuneECU? If someone, with better management skills than I have, were to create the format, I'd love to contribute.

Maybe we could just start a new thread and edit the first postings while discussing them later in the thread?

Thoughts?
I think this would be a great idea, a LC8 specific index per say.

Just got back from running the Akra Map with 02 on. Left me with the same question as you. When is the bike open vs closed loop, and is this irrelevant from the TPS vs MAP mapping right?

When I first started with the 02 was on, all was super smooth. The more it learned (and as I climbed altitude) thinks started to get a little choppy. Then, it started to smooth out again, and got better and better as I progressed, but also came down in altitude.

When exactally is the ECU adapting with the 02s anyway? Is it only remapping a particular map, or is it remapping both? Open and close loop refer to 02 on and off right, not TPS or MAP?
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:07 AM   #1755
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"
I've also downloaded a copy of MotorOlly's map...
From his initial descriptions when he first posted up about it, he said he just trimmed the stock F tables by 10% from (i think it was) 2000k to 6000k. Now looking at the downloaded version, it looks like there has been some other changes as well. MotorOlly, perhaps you could elaborate? It looks like you've also changed the idle. Why? Your map notes state this, but I'm having a little trouble deciphering what it means. Forgive my ignorance, but if you could elaborate on exactally what shifted that would be great! "
Sorry for the cryptic talk!
It's like the coordinates of the map to define the areas, as another poster says, hope that makes sense. the idle was lowered so the bike just felt better, maybe a new tight engine needs the higher idle but not mine. I would always turn oof secondary air and o2s if remapping, secondary air might give false readings and closed loop with o2s will counteract your good work. Closed loop means its monitoring the o2s and trying to set fueling for a particular target lambda, usually on during steady state. If u can't change the target then best turn it off. I suspect KTM set it pretty rich! Typed on a smart phone on tour in France, please excuse any typos :)
Ps don't forget to reset the adaptions after download and if you want response even smoother change 2ndary butterflies as discussed about a month ago, good change I reckon! Yesterday I got 450 miles on a 44 litres tank :)
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