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Old 01-14-2014, 01:58 PM   #2536
BigTony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMongo View Post
After looking through all the TuneECU maps and files that I can find, there appears to only be two custom maps that are out there in the interweb that have been developed for an open intake like a Rottweiler. The most widely distributed tune is based on moto-treks map set for his newish 990 (2011/12).

This set of maps has been partially copied into other tunes for different version 990s, such as my version: 2007/2008. I'm a little uncomfortable with the fact that the F and L maps are copied from his tune into a 2007/08 tune, but the F-L switch settings and the 2nd butterfly map is not. I suspect that his maps may have been created with his second butterflies working as shown in his tune. This probably also applies to the F-L settings. His maps are found in different TuneECU tunes at a few different places on the web.

The second set of custom maps created for an open intake is the Power-Tripp maps. They are (for the most part) richer than the moto-treks maps, and are also created for newer 990s (2009/10) so they have to be cut and pasted into a 2007/08 tune for appropriate ignition advance.

Perhaps it would be better to just paste 2008 ignition maps into either of their tunes in order to keep all of their dyno-tune developed fuel/air maps together:
F maps
L maps
2nd Throttle
F-L Switch
(I am neglecting the low octane fuel map as this post is a bit too detailed and complicated already)

Otherwise, I have to copy and paste a lot of different tables and settings, oh well.

I haven't found any other custom map sets or tunes out there other than these two, but others may exist. I just haven't found them yet. I also haven't found any tunes that are based on edited copies of Power-Tripp's tune, like I have for moto-treks' tune. There may be some of those out there someplace as well. There may be a few places on the internet that I haven't visited yet. I better get back to looking around as soon as I finish writing this post.

After another excessively long discussion, here is a single question:
Is it really OK to separate out the F and/or L map from a tune and use it without the 2nd Throttle butterfly map and F-L Switch settings that it was developed with? Some of these versions of moto-treks' tune that are distributed on the web have significantly different F-L settings and 2nd butterfly map than his original tune.

FWIW, my 990 is now tolerable to ride with just such a tune loaded, where before I was almost not comfortable lanesplitting stop-n-go traffic on the freeways here in Congestedfreewaylifornia. It's not safe to ride in this traffic without splitting lanes, so it takes a lot for me to say that.

Now my 990 is working pretty well, but is still a bit of a wild beast between 2500 and 4500 rpm. I am thinking that I will finish integrating both of their complete map sets into 2007/08 tunes, try them out and take whichever I like best to my future dyno-tuner.

Thanks for reading this. Thanks even more if you have any answers or even just further related comments. You may return to your funny cat videos and epic-fail compilation videos now.
IMO the biggest issue with pasting F &/or L maps from an '09+ into an '07-08 is that these newer bikes run different camshafts (From the '07+ super duke if my info is correct). Rich is safer than lean, and the CPR and Power Tripp maps are richer than the '07-08 akra map, but my bike didn't run well with those values pasted into an '07 map.

I just had my '07 dyno tuned (with TuneECU/dyno/gas analyzer) and the tuner told me that the bike with the '07-08 akra map, leo vince slip on with baffles, an SW7 intake, and SAS/SAI removed, was lean at high RPM. I picked up 10hp over the Akra map once tuned and the bike runs smoother, better mileage, and runs up to redline much harder and with a less buzzy feeling.

I have a TuneECU cable and downloaded the map to my laptop last weekend to see what it looks like. PM me if interested in details!! I'm in San Francisco and happy to share experiences getting these '07-08 bike running right.


As a side note, I sure wish there was a Power-Tripp map for these early FI bikes - he seems to have spent the most time of any of the known tuners thoroughly developing F, L, and I map updates for the newer bikes, and he uses a more advanced dyno with a brake. But oh well - it was a bit of a pain and $$ but my bike runs decent now.

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Old 01-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #2537
xTomKx
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Can somebody tell me what causes the random hiccups that my 990 is experiencing? They seem out of the blue and difficult to repeat. Also, I'm running powertrip akra map and it seems that it deteriorates over time. Sort of like it's getting leaner over time. I reloaded the map then went on a 3 hour ride last weekend. Bike ran decent on the first half and then went to crap. Was getting lots of hiccups on the way home.

Mods are sw7 intake, custom aftermarket exhaust, sai removed,

still has the canisters in place
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:15 PM   #2538
JoeMongo
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGibbons View Post
IMO the biggest issue with pasting F &/or L maps from an '09+ into an '07-08 is that these newer bikes run different camshafts (From the '07+ super duke if my info is correct). Rich is safer than lean, and the CPR and Power Tripp maps are richer than the '07-08 akra map, but my bike didn't run well with those values pasted into an '07 map.

I just had my '07 dyno tuned (with TuneECU/dyno/gas analyzer) and the tuner told me that the bike with the '07-08 akra map, leo vince slip on with baffles, an SW7 intake, and SAS/SAI removed, was lean at high RPM. I picked up 10hp over the Akra map once tuned and the bike runs smoother, better mileage, and runs up to redline much harder and with a less buzzy feeling.

I have a TuneECU cable and downloaded the map to my laptop last weekend to see what it looks like. PM me if interested in details!! I'm in San Francisco and happy to share experiences getting these '07-08 bike running right.


As a side note, I sure wish there was a Power-Tripp map for these early FI bikes - he seems to have spent the most time of any of the known tuners thoroughly developing F, L, and I map updates for the newer bikes, and he uses a more advanced dyno with a brake. But oh well - it was a bit of a pain and $$ but my bike runs decent now.

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the response and the information!

Your concern about the differences in the cam timing between the two vintages of 990 are why I copied the F, L, 2nd throttle, and F-L switches into the 07/08 Akra map, so that I would have the correct ignition advance maps for both high octane, as well as Baja milk jug fuel (aka: low octane).

The four maps that I copied into my test maps should be entirely, or nearly entirely, independent of cam timing. After all, I've owned bikes that run the fuel injectors as a percentage of full time duty cycle, not just during intake. They seem to work fine that way, and since the 990 injectors are also well above the valves, they probably do the same. I haven't found out if that is the case, but since it seems likely, then the fuel maps are probably pretty portable across full production run of 990 motors. I could be wrong though.

All that said, I finished a tank of gas in the bike using the Power-Trip tune based maps pasted into the 07/08 OEM Akra tune (with O2 on), and had some interesting results.

Fuel usage was rather high, at about 23 mpg. I had gotten almost 40 mpg using the OEM Akra map with O2 turned off. I suspect that this means that I can go quite a bit leaner, someplace, or even many places in the map. But where? Need a good dyno-tuner to tell me if I want to be certain.

Second, the throttle snatch at the transition from zero throttle to open throttle was still very severe with that tune. I decided by the end of my test that I could live with it, especially as it should slowly get better as the ECU learned the motor's response.

So last night I installed a new tune that I made by pasting the moto-trek maps (same four: F, L, 2nd throttle, and F-L switch) into the 07/08 OEM Akra tune.

HOLY Monkey Fighting Batman, Boy Wonder!!!

Throttle snatch at the closed throttle transition has almost left the building! Throttle is smooth and predictable all the way up the RPM range, no matter what the load is! This is starting to feel like a high displacement, high torque, light flywheel V-Twin should feel. It revs into redline almost too easily. I am only distracted by having to pay attention to my rear view mirrors in case I am attracting the wrong type of attention. I don't need a performance award. That would put a crimp on my future dyno-tune budget.

All this means that I am more than a little concerned. This is the first time that I have ridden this bike with it running even remotely properly. I am worried about the safety of the motor (mostly because of the magnitude of the differences) so I am a little afraid to take it out anywhere at meaningful speed (engine load) in case I burn my exhaust valves or melt a hole in my piston crown. So I will be parking it until I get a feel for things. There are places where the F map that I had in it yesterday, and the map in it today, differ by up to 14 percent. Some of those places are possibly influenced by the fact that those same RPM regions have a dip in the 2nd throttle openings compared to the richer map.

This is starting to give me a headache, but at least the motor still runs, and in fact runs better than I ever expected it could. Now just to do some due diligence to verify that I'm not going to break it. If I was a risk taker, I'd just run with it the way it is, but I'm more of a belt and suspenders kind of person.

Having looked at the differences between the two maps sets, in the region of my major throttle snatch, I see two significant differences, but I am a motor tuning idiot, so I won't make any public comments. I'm almost certainly just confused. I would like to compare these to another map that works, especially if it is for an 07/08 vintage bike! Tony, our bikes are essentially identical in intake and exhaust, even if they have different logos on the products. I'll be sending you a PM! I could use some reference data as well as your recommendations regarding your tuner. Thanks again.
J.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:36 AM   #2539
Spark01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xTomKx View Post
Can somebody tell me what causes the random hiccups that my 990 is experiencing? They seem out of the blue and difficult to repeat. Also, I'm running powertrip akra map and it seems that it deteriorates over time. Sort of like it's getting leaner over time. I reloaded the map then went on a 3 hour ride last weekend. Bike ran decent on the first half and then went to crap. Was getting lots of hiccups on the way home.

Mods are sw7 intake, custom aftermarket exhaust, sai removed,

still has the canisters in place
Tps set correct, throttle bodies balanced?
When you reload a map some value's are reset, a 15 min idle relearns those value's but when you start driving those value's are reviewed and adapted by the ecu overtime. So that can explain why it first runs "ok" and after a while nok
Make sure everything is set ok.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:53 AM   #2540
xTomKx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark01 View Post
Tps set correct, throttle bodies balanced?

When you reload a map some value's are reset, a 15 min idle relearns those value's but when you start driving those value's are reviewed and adapted by the ecu overtime. So that can explain why it first runs "ok" and after a while nok

Make sure everything is set ok.

I have checked the tps sensor settings in tune ecu and they are nearly identical. Will need to balance the throttle bodies. My bike only has 2800 miles. Doesn't ktm balance them at the factory?


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Old 01-16-2014, 06:52 AM   #2541
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Quote:
So last night I installed a new tune that I made by pasting the moto-trek maps (same four: F, L, 2nd throttle, and F-L switch) into the 07/08 OEM Akra tune.
Any chance you can identify the exact moto-trek map you used?

I have been away from this thread for a while an am having trouble finding it.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:35 AM   #2542
Deviant666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark01 View Post
Tps set correct, throttle bodies balanced?
When you reload a map some value's are reset, a 15 min idle relearns those value's but when you start driving those value's are reviewed and adapted by the ecu overtime. So that can explain why it first runs "ok" and after a while nok
Make sure everything is set ok.
+1, possible solution (only if you ride in similar altitudes/conditions) ticking off O2 sensors from Tuneecu...(remember you have to reset adaptation of ECU to get back to "no hickup" mode and redo the 15 mins idle trick)...
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:59 AM   #2543
JoeMongo
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map table source

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-t View Post
Any chance you can identify the exact moto-trek map you used?

I have been away from this thread for a while an am having trouble finding it.

Thanks
I used his original maps from his tune that he generously makes available on his web site (www.moto-treks.com) for the source of the tables that I pasted into the OEM 07/08 Akra tune and loaded into my bike a few days ago. I recommend that anyone that considers doing this, whether with moto-treks' maps or anyone else's, compare those maps to each other using TuneECU first in order to see the differences. It is most interesting to see where some of the maps (from different sources) are the same and where maps differ from each other. It certainly makes it easy to see where the data sources are for tunes that are made available on commercial web sites, and where in the tables (and by whom) they have been revised.

J.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:49 PM   #2544
rossguzzi
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Joe,
Would love to hear how you like the map after you have put a few miles on it.
Cheers
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:30 AM   #2545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGibbons View Post
IMO the biggest issue with pasting F &/or L maps from an '09+ into an '07-08 is that these newer bikes run different camshafts (From the '07+ super duke if my info is correct). Rich is safer than lean, and the CPR and Power Tripp maps are richer than the '07-08 akra map, but my bike didn't run well with those values pasted into an '07 map.

I just had my '07 dyno tuned (with TuneECU/dyno/gas analyzer) and the tuner told me that the bike with the '07-08 akra map, leo vince slip on with baffles, an SW7 intake, and SAS/SAI removed, was lean at high RPM. I picked up 10hp over the Akra map once tuned and the bike runs smoother, better mileage, and runs up to redline much harder and with a less buzzy feeling.

I have a TuneECU cable and downloaded the map to my laptop last weekend to see what it looks like. PM me if interested in details!! I'm in San Francisco and happy to share experiences getting these '07-08 bike running right.


As a side note, I sure wish there was a Power-Tripp map for these early FI bikes - he seems to have spent the most time of any of the known tuners thoroughly developing F, L, and I map updates for the newer bikes, and he uses a more advanced dyno with a brake. But oh well - it was a bit of a pain and $$ but my bike runs decent now.
Would love to try your map out here in the UK PM sent.

Cheers

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Old 01-18-2014, 12:56 PM   #2546
JoeMongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossguzzi View Post
Joe,
Would love to hear how you like the map after you have put a few miles on it.
Cheers
Well, I took the big black beast out to a narrow twisty mountain road yesterday, with mostly 2nd gear curves (and a few 1st gear curves thrown in to get my attention), and my current tune needs some work as well. Throttle response at the on/off transition is very hard to manage, even with a G2-400 cam throttle.

As long as I am accelerating or running at higher speeds so the engine is significantly loaded, the beast does great. But holding a steady speed at low engine output, say 25 to 30 mph, is exhausting and throttle steering my way around tight turns is almost impossible. Even clutchless throttle around medium turns takes focus and faith.

I was only able to get one additional fueling stumble, once when I slammed the throttle wide open at about 3K rpm to close a gap in bad traffic (well, yes, and also to hear that wonderful howl from the intake and Akras), and it almost lost rpm before it started pulling again. It only happened once and I couldn't get it to do so again. Hmmnnnn . . . .

My TPS is good, throttle are balanced, MAP and barometric sensors all look great. I think I will be trying another tune once I get a full tank through this one for approximate fuel mileage.
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:00 PM   #2547
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You need to mark the throttle tube so you will know what throttle opening is causing problems. Mostly, you'll need 0%, 5%, 10%, 15%.

When you have problems, look down and notice the %open and RPM.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:52 PM   #2548
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Question about 2nd Throttle Position Sensor

Removed the canister and the SAS and disabled both using TunceECU (v. 2.5.3) on my 2011 990 Adventure Dakar Edition. I then installed the Rottweiler filter and loaded the 2-into-1 map from the TuneECU website. Did the 15 reset adaptation and I'm still getting the FI light blinking. I noticed that the TPS was at 0.72.

Following the directions on this thread, I adjusted the throttle position sensor twice: first so that it reads 0.65v, and a second time to read 0.58 v. in both cases, the following error message shows up in TunceECU and the FI light blinks (a cycle of 7 blinks, then a pause):

P0223 2nd throttle position sensor, high voltage or short circuit to battery

I also did a 15 min Reset Adaption after the first adjustment.

The 2nd Throttle test on the Test tab in TuneECU passes and returns the error message is replaced with "No errors". However, the FI light still blinks, and after I re-cycle the switch, the P0223 error returns.

Is the "2nd TPS" the same as "TPS" ? Is this a reference to the TPS on the rear cylinder? Does it need to be adjusted separately from the front TPS?
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:08 PM   #2549
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15 min trick

The 15 min trick works for some resetting but it WILL NOT WORK when doing this much work. KTM has a specialty tool that does a hard reset for your ECU. Save your self a lot of hard ake, bring your bike to a dealer and have them reset the ECU and load the map of your choice. Only then will your bike run properly.

good Luck


Quote:
Originally Posted by BykBoy View Post
Removed the canister and the SAS and disabled both using TunceECU (v. 2.5.3) on my 2011 990 Adventure Dakar Edition. I then installed the Rottweiler filter and loaded the 2-into-1 map from the TuneECU website. Did the 15 reset adaptation and I'm still getting the FI light blinking. I noticed that the TPS was at 0.72.

Following the directions on this thread, I adjusted the throttle position sensor twice: first so that it reads 0.65v, and a second time to read 0.58 v. in both cases, the following error message shows up in TunceECU and the FI light blinks (a cycle of 7 blinks, then a pause):

P0223 2nd throttle position sensor, high voltage or short circuit to battery

I also did a 15 min Reset Adaption after the first adjustment.

The 2nd Throttle test on the Test tab in TuneECU passes and returns the error message is replaced with "No errors". However, the FI light still blinks, and after I re-cycle the switch, the P0223 error returns.

Is the "2nd TPS" the same as "TPS" ? Is this a reference to the TPS on the rear cylinder? Does it need to be adjusted separately from the front TPS?
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:41 PM   #2550
JoeMongo
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Originally Posted by KTMexcrider View Post
The 15 min trick works for some resetting but it WILL NOT WORK when doing this much work. KTM has a specialty tool that does a hard reset for your ECU. Save your self a lot of hard ake, bring your bike to a dealer and have them reset the ECU and load the map of your choice. Only then will your bike run properly.

good Luck
Are you saying that this "hard reset" is more than the "Reset Adaption" command that we have access to?
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