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Old 03-14-2014, 04:16 AM   #2641
Loui€
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Location: PoroWaara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikef5000 View Post
To add to this... The 4% map cut the popping in half, but it was still there. I'm now running a 6% map... My stock map, plus 6% to the fueling in the F1, F2, L1, and L2. No popping. No stumbling. No flat spots. Snappy throttle. And I'm happy. I'll put some more miles on it this week, and then try to put it on a dyno this Friday or next (free dyno runs on Fridays)... to make sure the bike is as happy as I am.
this sounds great news for 2008 models! (2 leo vinces + ITG). I'll try this too!

**** how is mileage now with +6%? ****
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:49 AM   #2642
Mikef5000
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While I've ridden around town several times, the weather went south, and I became busy at work again, so I haven't put enough miles on it to check the fuel economy. I'm going to do my best to run a couple tanks through it (and recheck) the rear spark plug for good color) before March Moto Madness in a couple weeks.
I'm not sure if I'll get on a dyno now or not.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:16 AM   #2643
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I have my maps 99% done but have run into a problem that I don't understand.

I have one very small area in the TPS map that refuses to respond to changes. 10% throttle, 3750-4000 on the front cylinder is too lean. I keep adding to those two cells in in TuneECU but according to the LM-2 the AFR does not change. If anything, it gets slightly leaner. I've added 4% three times and then another 7%. Still too lean but only in that one little spot - which happens to be 6th gear, 60-65 mph so is critical that I get it dialed. A few % or a couple hundred RPM up or down AFR is right where I want it. F-L switch is set at 4% across the board.

Any ideas?
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:03 AM   #2644
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Reset adaptation took something like that out on mine.

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Old 03-17-2014, 06:01 PM   #2645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I have my maps 99% done but have run into a problem that I don't understand.

I have one very small area in the TPS map that refuses to respond to changes. 10% throttle, 3750-4000 on the front cylinder is too lean. I keep adding to those two cells in in TuneECU but according to the LM-2 the AFR does not change. If anything, it gets slightly leaner. I've added 4% three times and then another 7%. Still too lean but only in that one little spot - which happens to be 6th gear, 60-65 mph so is critical that I get it dialed. A few % or a couple hundred RPM up or down AFR is right where I want it. F-L switch is set at 4% across the board.

Any ideas?
Here's a few straws to grab onto...

I seem to remember another inmate having problems making small changes with one cylinder. Something about writing into only a few cells out of thousands. Don't remember his solution. Can only suggest you push another map that is greatly different, then go back to yours?

The other suggestion is to turn the F/L down to zero, to make sure it's not conflicting?
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:27 PM   #2646
JoeMongo
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I have my maps 99% done but have run into a problem that I don't understand.

I have one very small area in the TPS map that refuses to respond to changes. 10% throttle, 3750-4000 on the front cylinder is too lean. I keep adding to those two cells in in TuneECU but according to the LM-2 the AFR does not change. If anything, it gets slightly leaner. I've added 4% three times and then another 7%. Still too lean but only in that one little spot - which happens to be 6th gear, 60-65 mph so is critical that I get it dialed. A few % or a couple hundred RPM up or down AFR is right where I want it. F-L switch is set at 4% across the board.

Any ideas?

Well, please don't be offended if this is already obvious to you. I need to ask if you have verified that the tables actually downloaded with the changes you attempted or not. Have you re-connected to your ECU and uploaded the tune from the bike back into a new file on your PC. Then do a full compare of the maps of the downloaded tune file to the new uploaded tune file to see if the modifications made it into the bike or not. It's pretty easy to scroll through by dragging the "clicked" mouse across the axes.

Regardless, if it were my bike and I was having this kind of trouble, I'd probably download an old extra rich tune, verify that it downloaded per the above, then download the desired tune, and once again compare.

So far, all my downloads have worked perfectly, but none were only subtly edited. They were all significantly different than their predecessors unless I was just turning on "O2". That said, I did the file compare every time just to be certain that the download was complete and accurate.

Best of luck, and let us know what you find.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:18 PM   #2647
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
Reset adaptation took something like that out on mine.
I'll give that a try

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
The other suggestion is to turn the F/L down to zero, to make sure it's not conflicting?
I did have this area particular area dialed in from the beginning. The whole TPS map was working pretty well with F-L set to zero. The exception was the AFR at super small throttle openings was a bit unpredictable. I set the FL table up to 4% and did a bit more fine tuning in both F tables and L tables. The weird lean spot didn't occur right away. It seemed to come out of nowhere because I had not needed to make changes in that range for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMongo View Post
I need to ask if you have verified that the tables actually downloaded with the changes you attempted or not. Have you re-connected to your ECU and uploaded the tune from the bike back into a new file on your PC. ...

Regardless, if it were my bike and I was having this kind of trouble, I'd probably download an old extra rich tune, verify that it downloaded per the above, then download the desired tune, and once again compare.
I haven't pulled a map back out of the ECU to verify it but all along it has been responding properly to my other adjustments. Just before running into this problem I was typically making little 1%-3% adjustments on no more than a handful of cells and could easily see the results in the LM-2 data. I was starting to think I was nearly done.

I'm getting pretty quick at this stuff now. 10 minutes of riding is enough to collect a usable amount of LM-2 data. It takes less than 5 minutes at the side of the road to study the results, modify the map, download it and get back on the road. I've probably gone through the cycle 50-100 times now.

I just loaded a saved map from just after turning the F-L switch back up to 4%. That's well before the lean spot cropped up. I'll start again from there after doing a reset adaptation and see what happens.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #2648
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Haven't tried it yet but here is a new app that could be useful (I haven't received the dongle yet). At the very least, it's cool....

Bluetooth diagnostic tool to use along TuneECU.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.ktmbtsensors
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:34 AM   #2649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikyto View Post
Haven't tried it yet but here is a new app that could be useful (I haven't received the dongle yet). At the very least, it's cool....

Bluetooth diagnostic tool to use along TuneECU.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.ktmbtsensors
Good find bykyoto.

Works on my 2011 990 Dirty Dak:


Using this OBDII Bluetooth scanner:
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:25 AM   #2650
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If the logging function works this could be the best thing to happen to TuneEcu for KTM ever. If only the O2 sensors were wideband....
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:25 AM   #2651
StevenD
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Awsome! Pair that with a Garmin monterra in the dash and you have a one in all dash!

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Old 03-23-2014, 01:26 AM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I have my maps 99% done but have run into a problem that I don't understand.

I have one very small area in the TPS map that refuses to respond to changes. 10% throttle, 3750-4000 on the front cylinder is too lean. I keep adding to those two cells in in TuneECU but according to the LM-2 the AFR does not change. If anything, it gets slightly leaner. I've added 4% three times and then another 7%. Still too lean but only in that one little spot - which happens to be 6th gear, 60-65 mph so is critical that I get it dialed. A few % or a couple hundred RPM up or down AFR is right where I want it. F-L switch is set at 4% across the board.

Any ideas?
Yes, it seems you have the same problem as i had on bike.
Mine was mapped on a dyno and we ranned into the same problem, no matter what we put in the trim the air fuel didn't change on the front.
Finally we found out if you commit a trim on both cylinders at the same time the air/fuel did change. So we mapped the front cylinder via this way and then we mapped the rear via the single trim.
Hopes this helps
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:53 AM   #2653
bikyto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BykBoy View Post
Good find bykyoto.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:10 AM   #2654
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark01 View Post
Yes, it seems you have the same problem as i had on bike.
Mine was mapped on a dyno and we ranned into the same problem, no matter what we put in the trim the air fuel didn't change on the front.
Finally we found out if you commit a trim on both cylinders at the same time the air/fuel did change. So we mapped the front cylinder via this way and then we mapped the rear via the single trim.
Hopes this helps
Hmm... I've been editing each map directly - not using the trim table at all. I think using the trim table would cause me more grief than it would solve.

I think Zuber nailed it when he suggested that the L table was affecting mixtures even though the problem spot was beyond the F-L switch point. It seems to me there is a broad range of interaction between the F and L tables up and down from the F-L switch points.

Currently I have the F-L switch set at 50% across the board (the largest value it will accept). I am slowly dialing in the L tables. It's a bit more difficult as unlike TPS the hPa is a moving target.

I had also wasted a bunch of effort earlier because I was using erroneous voltage to hPa information.

Once I've massaged the L tables as well as I can I will set F-L switch back to zero and work the F tables again.
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DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:22 PM   #2655
StevenD
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Just disconnect the TPS!!

And the F/L is not a switch, its a percentage of weight in 3d calculation.
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