ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush > Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-23-2014, 02:38 PM   #2656
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
And the F/L is not a switch, its a percentage of weight in 3d calculation.
Can you elaborate on this? Give us a rough idea how the calculation is made or used?
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 06:53 PM   #2657
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
Just disconnect the TPS!!
My bike will not start with the TPS disconnected. 2011 990 Dakar
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 08:11 PM   #2658
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,885
F/L Switch Points

From PowerTripp, pg 67.

Having used TuneBoy/TuneEdit since 2004, and TuneECU since its release, while dyno mapping KTM, Aprillia, Triumph, Duc, etc., I may be able to help.

A few details that may clear things up a bit:
•The F_L switch points listed in the table are NOT in TPS percent.
•Both F and L tables are used at all times. It is just that one has priority over the other based on the switch points, and the other is far less effective.
•The stock narrow band sensor has a very narrow range for closed loop operation Lambda .98-1.02
•Watch your Wideband Commander's accuracy. The sensor/meter is not the most accurate unit, and the sensor does degrade over time.
•Ignition advance alters the readings of the wideband sensor - even when no fueling changes have been made. This is a result of changes in residual O2 in the exhaust gases due to differences in combustion efficiency and heat with changes in ignition advance.
•The fuel used alters the stoichiometric ratio, as well as the best output ratios. Oxygenated fuels (such as with ethanol), produce more residual O2 in the exhaust. This alters the Lambda/wideband sensor reading.
•There is no perfect AFR/Lambda reading that gives best output and response at all engine speeds and loads. Give the engine what it wants, not what you think it wants.

I hope this helps.

More...

The values are closer to 4 per 1% TPS, but they seem to differ a bit as you get higher or lower. There is a bit of interpolation going on.

26 is roughly 6 - 6.5% TPS, 3-4 = ~1% TPS.

Look at the engine speed where you make peak power. At roughly 1/3 of this rpm, taper the F_L Switch off to 3-4... not 0.
This allows good low rpm resolution for smooth response, still allows for reducing decel enrichment/enleanment, and moves the change-over point out of the way so that there is not a sudden change from one table to another right where you ride most.

The L (MAP) tables are more important than many realize. While difficult to work with without an eddy-current brake on a dyno, they influence fueling and ignition advance throughout the map, giving good transient response.

Changes in F or L switch points require work to the F and L tables, as well as ignition advance.

I hope this helps,

-Wayne
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 04:31 PM   #2659
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,207
Done!

What finally worked was to dial up the F-L switch all the way and massage the L tables as well as I could then dial the F-L switch down to zero and massage the F tables then REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT...

Disconnecting the TPS did not work - bike would not start. Same with leaving it connected but just removing it from the throttle body. Doing that sends a 0 volts signal to the ECU and the bike will not start.

One thing that's telling - even with the F-L switch values set to the maximum, if the TPS adjustment is even .05v low it would be so lean as to run like crap. This tells me that there is always a large amount of TPS influence regardless of the F-L switch settings.

Anyway, the 990 is running great. I did a 100 mile loop yesterday to get a quick indication of fuel economy - 43mpg. It will take a lot more riding to be sure but that's a 10% improvement over stock while being able to breathe much better and make more power with the ITG air filter.
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 04:47 PM   #2660
Gustavo.Ramos
Studly Adventurer
 
Gustavo.Ramos's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Accross the pond
Oddometer: 850
We see alot of F and L tables digging, but what about the Ignition tables? Something tells me there a whole world to be discovered there, granted that will also require messing again with Fuel tables... Unfortunatly i have no way of digging it.

If we compare a standard 100hp 990 with a 85hp 800GS, the fuel mileage difference is huge and it can't be only related to F/L tables... sure the fun factor might change, but still... i know these are different set ups and any hardware comparison is meaningless, but the numbers are there.
__________________
Growing old is mandatory... growing up is optional!

Raid de L'Amitié 2011 RR (link)
690R
Gustavo.Ramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 10:45 AM   #2661
Lupin 3rd
Raygun Gothic
 
Lupin 3rd's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: MoCo LoCo
Oddometer: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos View Post
If we compare a standard 100hp 990 with a 85hp 800GS, the fuel mileage difference is huge and it can't be only related to F/L tables... sure the fun factor might change, but still... i know these are different set ups and any hardware comparison is meaningless, but the numbers are there.
BMW has much more experience than KTM with fuel injection, afaik all their GS bikes get great mileage. My '06 F650GS gets 60MPG commuting to work in the city, with a low of 57 in heavy traffic. By comparison my '07 990 is in the low 30's in the same conditions which is a bit disappointing. Given, the 990 is more fun to ride, but I'd be much happier with low 40's MPG.
__________________
To see the world, things dangerous to come to, to see behind walls, draw closer, to find each other, and to feel. That is the purpose of life.
Lupin 3rd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 11:33 AM   #2662
Hootowl
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Bend Oregon
Oddometer: 1,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin 3rd View Post
Given, the 990 is more fun to ride, but I'd be much happier with low 40's MPG.
That's very achievable
__________________
Keep it Wild, Keep it Free

'07 990A
'12 Super Tenere
Hootowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2014, 12:38 PM   #2663
Lupin 3rd
Raygun Gothic
 
Lupin 3rd's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: MoCo LoCo
Oddometer: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootowl View Post
That's very achievable
Let me rephrase that as easily get low 40's commuting to work.
__________________
To see the world, things dangerous to come to, to see behind walls, draw closer, to find each other, and to feel. That is the purpose of life.
Lupin 3rd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2014, 08:10 PM   #2664
AndyKirby
Mostly Harmless
 
AndyKirby's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Oddometer: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin 3rd View Post
afaik all their GS bikes get great mileage.
Not the early ones, Lazarus, my '04 R1100GS gets 34mpg no matter how it gets ridden. Commute, slab dirt, local and cross country and it's a hoot but not in the same 'fun' league as the 990 IMHO

Andy
AndyKirby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 02:46 AM   #2665
OldTriumphRider
Livin the Dream
 
OldTriumphRider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Friendsville ,Tn ...Smoky Mts
Oddometer: 126
2007 efi

I just put blocking plates on my "07" 990 ADV and removed the SAS .
When I started it up the code light blinks 5 long and 4 short.
I didn't have the resistor plugged in where the pump was so I was sure the code was for that , (I was warming the engine for an oil change), so I plugged the pump back in to stop the light from blinking ,but it didn't stop it...
When I done this on the 2011 Dakar it stopped the blinking.
I'm going to hook up the tune ecu and uncheck the SAS box but I was just checking to see if there was something else I needed to do .

Just puzzeled that plugging the pump back in didn't stop the light from sending a code since it worked on the newer bike....I'm new at this so I thought I might get some idea's from someone on this..
OldTriumphRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:23 AM   #2666
Loui€
Rides With Reindeer
 
Loui€'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: PoroWaara
Oddometer: 47
ecu changed in 2009, so earlier has different behavior.
but with tune ecu you fix it:
clear error codes, get your map from bike, and after uncheck sai-box, load the map back to bike; otherwise that error keeps coming back (at least mine did...)
__________________
2008 KTM 990 ADV
Loui€ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 11:10 AM   #2667
OldTriumphRider
Livin the Dream
 
OldTriumphRider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Friendsville ,Tn ...Smoky Mts
Oddometer: 126
codes

I did what you said , I got the light to stop blinking by erasing codes.
I did get a discription of another code on my laptop tho..
po113 air temp senor or short to battery
now the bike is running great on the lift , starts good , FI light isn't blinking,
but when I hook up my battery tender the red light blinks , saying that I don't have a good connection...tried this with the battery out of my other bike too,got the same results , put the battery back in my new bike and the battery tender hooks up fine.....
I'am guessing I got some kinda short somewhere ,,,this all started when I changed battery out and put in a new one ,,, I thought I got a bad battery because it would go down if the bike set for a week or more...
I don't see anything out of normal , not sure what my next step is going to be..
electic is not my good point for sure.

thanks for your input
Ron
OldTriumphRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:31 PM   #2668
Zuber
Zoob
 
Zuber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Main Street, Shedd, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTriumphRider View Post
I did what you said , I got the light to stop blinking by erasing codes.
I did get a discription of another code on my laptop tho..
po113 air temp senor or short to battery
now the bike is running great on the lift , starts good , FI light isn't blinking,
but when I hook up my battery tender the red light blinks , saying that I don't have a good connection...tried this with the battery out of my other bike too,got the same results , put the battery back in my new bike and the battery tender hooks up fine.....
I'am guessing I got some kinda short somewhere ,,,this all started when I changed battery out and put in a new one ,,, I thought I got a bad battery because it would go down if the bike set for a week or more...
I don't see anything out of normal , not sure what my next step is going to be..
electic is not my good point for sure.

thanks for your input
Ron
If you left the connection off the top of the air box, it will cause that 'air temp sensor' error. Just have that connected when you turn the bike on.

You have to turn the SAS/SAI off, program the bike, THEN pull the hardware off. Otherwise, it sets the error before you can program it.

Double and triple check your charger connections for that problem. I've got that hooked up wrong 1/2 the time. Backwards, no ground, wrong wire, etc. Get a volt meter and check the battery voltage or look at TuneECU. You want at least 13.2v or so for a good charge. A low battery will cause all kinds of problems. Check that the cables are flat on the battery and not touching the plastic case, common problem on replacement batteries.

One problem at a time.
__________________
"Dad, can I get a motorcycle when I grow up?"
"Son, you can't do both"
Zuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 01:51 PM   #2669
pdxthmper
Gnarly Adventurer
 
pdxthmper's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Portland OR
Oddometer: 377
Nice work, what year 990?

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Done!

What finally worked was to dial up the F-L switch all the way and massage the L tables as well as I could then dial the F-L switch down to zero and massage the F tables then REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT...

Disconnecting the TPS did not work - bike would not start. Same with leaving it connected but just removing it from the throttle body. Doing that sends a 0 volts signal to the ECU and the bike will not start.

One thing that's telling - even with the F-L switch values set to the maximum, if the TPS adjustment is even .05v low it would be so lean as to run like crap. This tells me that there is always a large amount of TPS influence regardless of the F-L switch settings.

Anyway, the 990 is running great. I did a 100 mile loop yesterday to get a quick indication of fuel economy - 43mpg. It will take a lot more riding to be sure but that's a 10% improvement over stock while being able to breathe much better and make more power with the ITG air filter.
__________________
KTM 990 ADV MAKING GROWN MEN ACT LIKE HOOLIGANS
XR 650"L"
pdxthmper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 02:24 PM   #2670
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxthmper View Post
Nice work, what year 990?
2011 Dakar
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014