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Old 02-09-2011, 04:44 AM   #331
Mr. Magoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketJohn View Post
the thing that kills me about these monster adventure bikes... they are too big to go offroad for most people, yet the wind flow/control is never free of buffeting on the highway...
ehh ... not so much .... I'm an average rider and my 1200gsa has been on woods bikes enduro runs in NJ, run the sands for Fl, SC, and NC, and toured miles of trail and dirt roads out West.

Buffeting? I still run the stock windscreen and marvel at how well it works for me; thankfully.

I keep looking for reasons to move it on but it's just too damn good as an all arounder.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:17 PM   #332
Two Plugs OP
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disillusions...

Today day nr 1 at the Utrecht International Motorcycle exhibition with the Dutch Transalp- and Varadero club. Are you currently in The Netherlands? Well, just drop by at one of the most important motorcycle exhibitions in the ‘Low Lands’ and visit us in Hall nr. 9!
The first thing I did this morning, was taking a sprint to the Honda quarters in Hall 12. I wanted – no, I needed to finally have a live look at Honda’s stunning Cross Tourer concept.
The disillusion came hard and painful…
This is the bike which is mend to brush away the success and record selling numbers of BMW’s R1200GS? To compete with Yamaha’s new Super Teneré? Not a chance. The bike is unbelievable small despite all things written on the internet. It’s almost sooo tiny that you could easily park it in the glove compartment of a mid-sized SUV.
According to rumors, the CT is also developed as an replacement for Honda’s today long distance tourer ST1300 Pan European. And the XL1000V Varadero. If that is true, Honda is making a BIG mistake. The concept looks ready for production, the finishing trim is just near to perfect. But despite the crashbars, the extra fogglights, the spoked wheels, etc it looks like a proper big trail bike on which some one dropped an heavy weight. Even the good, old Varadero looks BIG next to the Cross Tourer concept.
And cheap: on offer for under 14.000,- Euro. And what to think about that other new kid on the block, the Triumph Tiger 800XC? Yours for 10.000,- Euro and with the looks of a proper big trail bike.
The CT is still an concept. Please, Honda… don’t make it an cross-over between a touring bike and a proper big trail bike. Remember the heritage you’ve got with the XRV750 Africa Twin.
If this is your answer to the R1200GS, the Super Tenere, the Stelvio, etc I am sorry, but in that case you are wrong – unfortunately again.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:40 PM   #333
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:27 PM   #334
stege
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Two Plugs: not what i wanted to hear. But thank you for the review.

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Old 02-25-2011, 04:16 PM   #335
Rick West
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
If this is your answer to the R1200GS, the Super Tenere, the Stelvio, etc I am sorry, but in that case you are wrong – unfortunately again.
Not surprised to hear this.

With how badly Honda's bikes have missed the mark in the last several years, I doubt many people thought that they could get this right either.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:17 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
The bike is unbelievable small despite all things written on the internet.
If this were true, it would mostly be a good thing. But all the external dimensions indicate it's very similar in size to the other big traillees. I think you'd need to get the competing bikes side-by-side to make much of a judgment on relative size.

- Mark
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:53 PM   #337
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The Style of Adventure Enduro Bikes is currently going backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
I needed to finally have a live look at Honda’s stunning Cross Tourer concept. The disillusion came hard and painful…

...Please, Honda don’t make it an cross-over between a touring bike and a proper big trail bike. Remember the heritage you’ve got with the XRV750 Africa Twin.

If this is your answer to the R1200GS, the Super Tenere, the Stelvio, etc I am sorry, but in that case you are wrong – unfortunately again.
At issue here is, that instead of getting better, the style of adventure enduro bikes is currently going backwards.

During the last couple of decades, Rally Sport produced some awesome designs. However all these developments that are proven and already there are about to go out the window, as manufacturers decided to cater to an emerging group of street bikers, who want to cross over / enter adventure enduro riding and impatiently want to start BIG, yet feel strongly intimidated by purebred adventure enduro bikes. The results are adventure enduro look alike bikes that are made to handle well on tarmac and some logging type roads, however at the expense of many other features that real enduro riders appreciate so much.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:51 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Wind View Post
At issue here is, that instead of getting better, the style of adventure enduro bikes is currently going backwards.

During the last couple of decades, Rally Sport produced some awesome designs. However all these developments that are proven and already there are about to go out the window, as manufacturers decided to cater to an emerging group of street bikers, who want to cross over / enter adventure enduro riding and impatiently want to start BIG, yet feel strongly intimidated by purebred adventure enduro bikes. The results are adventure enduro look alike bikes that are made to handle well on tarmac and some logging type roads, however at the expense of many other features that real enduro riders appreciate so much.
Well... Some manufactures do get it right. The new Triumph Tiger 800 XC is really stunning (and not comparable with the current 1050 which is only an overengeneered TDM), a proper adventure bike.

Same goes for BMW's F800GS.

I'm very happy with the Honda's I own. But I also have to be honest... Which one of the new Honda's released in the last 10 years made heads turn?

Non. OK, they have been interesting on aspects of being technical advanced but even that aspect (VFR1200) became hollow promises. And sales numbers went down deeper than the Titanic. If that doesn't ring any bells at the Honda HQ - well then, keep selling 125cc Honda motorscooters in Asia if that's your core business...

I'm still eager to have an ride on it. Maybe it does handle like a proper big trail bike. But on aspects of appearance, it isn't. I still think it is an beautiful motorcycle (like the VFR1200) and that it is put together very nicely, very tight.

But it isn't the BMW R1200GS Adventure or Yamaha Super Tenere beater I (and the rest of the Varadero community) was hoping for.

Oh, Lord Honda..., could you please give us back a modern interpretation of that all-time classic, the Africa Twin... Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, yeh... Triumph and BMW already did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
If this were true, it would mostly be a good thing. But all the external dimensions indicate it's very similar in size to the other big traillees. I think you'd need to get the competing bikes side-by-side to make much of a judgment on relative size.

- Mark
Mark, I did. On the Honda stand, the CT concept was on display together with the XL1000V Varadero (which is a proper big trail bike in terms of dimensions). And beside the Honda stand (direct neighbours on the exhibition) you could compare the S10 from Yamaha, the 800XC and Beemers 'evergreen' R1200 GS.

Even Ducati's Multistrada and Guzzi's Stelvio look tall comparing with the CT's appearance.

OK, I can understand if you are planning to replace the ST1300 (I'm still not convinced that these rumors are true) by this CT concept, that the saddle should be lower than on a big trail bike.

But please, don't make a silly cross-over.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:07 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
The bike is unbelievable small despite all things written on the internet. It’s almost sooo tiny that you could easily park it in the glove compartment of a mid-sized SUV.
I'm confused. You want a new AT, which was not a big bike. Yet you're criticizing the new CT for being too small?
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:48 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
I'm confused. You want a new AT, which was not a big bike. Yet you're criticizing the new CT for being too small?
I am confused too. The Stelvio, Varadero and Tenere are all gigantic, 600+lbs bikes. Each weighs nearly as much as a Harley Dyna. They are fat, gigantic pigs. The Tiger 800 and GS800 he calls real adv bikes are tiny compared to the first three.

It must kind of suck to be 6' 8" tall and try to find motorcycles that actually work for you.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:00 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
The bike is unbelievable small despite all things written on the internet. It’s almost sooo tiny that you could easily park it in the glove compartment of a mid-sized SUV.
Two Plugs, thanks a lot for your report. Just wondering: if I am not mistaken, you mentioned somewhere that you are really tall, something like 2 metres or more. Could it be that, other than maybe the GSA with high seating position, just about any bike seems small to you?

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Old 02-27-2011, 11:12 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
The bike is unbelievable small despite all things written on the internet. It’s almost sooo tiny that you could easily park it in the glove compartment of a mid-sized SUV.
Sorry, I hit enter too quickly. Hope you took the picture of the big guy with the midgets with some humour.

I wanted to go on to post another picture somebody else posted somewhere, trying to compare Honda's CrossTourer with Yam's SuperTeneré, purely from photographs. Admittedly, the parameters of the Hondamaha comparison may be wrong, but if one can safely assume that the wheel diameter is the same in both bikes, the error cannot be too large. Handlebars and windsreen positions differ, and the Honda seat seems lower, but the bike does not that much of a midget as was your first impression.

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Old 02-27-2011, 11:21 PM   #343
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@Dorsicano... No worries mate, I love self-spot-humor! ;)

The XRV 750 Africa Twin isn't small. OK, it gives only 60 Bhp from 750 cc, but the seating position is higher as - f.e. - on my current Varadero. What I ment by 'please give us an modern interpretation of the Africa Twin' was that I would love a new Honda motorcycle with the adventureous looks and capabilities of the Africa twin...

I don't care about weight. My ancient 1984 Honda traillie XLV750R is only 200 kg, the Varadero puts 280 kg on the scale. So what. I love the appereance of - any - big trail bike.

It doesn't S*ck to be 6,8 ft ;) I love it (and my wife too...) and there are plenty of bikes to choose from. Yeh, BMW's R1200GS Adventure is one of the options.

But my next bike will be most likely a Yam S10. For the moment, I will continieu riding on my current Honda XL1000V... Last of the Mohicans... ;)

Till parts will drop off - but with only 80.000 km on the ODO it is just beginning to run smooth... ;)
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:59 AM   #344
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The XTour is still designated a concept at the moment. Saw my first Super 10 today. Can't say i was all that impressed. The Tiger 800 looks much nicer and here in the UK you can buy 2 Tigers for the price of 1 Super 10 (nearly).
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:13 AM   #345
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It´s a shame with honda.

Africa-Twin is dead. (I´will never understand that!)

Dominator - dead.

Transalp has become more of a streetbike (differs not much from the coming crossrunner). Good bike, but very different to the style of the old TA´s.

Varadero. Let it die for the new crosstourer? What the hell? V4? Smaller? More weight?.

Terrible.

Maybe i should do a testride on the Yami S10.
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Arktus screwed with this post 02-28-2011 at 06:27 AM
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