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Old 11-03-2010, 02:43 AM   #91
R3B
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Originally Posted by Reverse
It is a blatant BMW design ripoff though, they even copied the beak.
Ehm sorry to blow your party, but the beak is a NSU Suzuki ripoff, and in now way resembling the GS, no loose piping anywhere, if you want to compare it to a Beemer the RT is a more likeely Candidate.

But its mre of a Wstrom with a little quote of DR-Big beak :-)

Perfectly for the ST/VFR Toursport riders who want to sit more comfortable upright, but don't like the Massage of a stomping Twin.

It would not wonder me if the GS crowd will get a very ghard time in the Dolomites, and will be completely defaced on the Stelvio, especially on the downward southside ride :-)
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:08 AM   #92
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Hear hear...last summer I saw quite a few "mammoth adventure" bikes on Stelvio and none of them seemed to be "at home" on that side of Stelvio pass.
To be honest it is area ruled by sports and all kind of fast light bikes. My friend with FJR struggled a bit as well.
When we were taking photos group of GSes equipped well enough for South Pole expedition went past with riders standing on the pegs on that dirt-covered part of road just to be overtaken but group of guys on Ducati Monsters, Hypermotards and older Multis thou it says nothing about bike ability I guess.

P.S. Suzuki beak ripoff - 1988 Suzuki DR750

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Old 11-03-2010, 03:14 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantan
you like the Yamaha better, good for you. Bonus points for inserting the picture of a significantly customized concept version of the Yamaha to show that your subjective opinion on looks is more correct.
Is there a non subjective opinion on looks? The fact it is called an OPINION says enought to me ;).

About having no offroad roads in europe, you all know that i not true, but you have to look for them (in western europe that is).
I live in that part of europe, but I still don't like this bike. Nor do I really like the standard gs. why? Because I do not see the point in owning such a bike. It is just way to much. Top speed is 200+, why? I don't see I stick to the speed limits all the time, but 200? On an adv bike? Get yourself a sportsbike or even an fjr or something like that...

I know people buy these bikes because they LOOK like an adv bike, but they are NOT!

Honda (or most manufacturers) don't need to make a copy of the beemer f.i. and make it even more complicated and with tons of plastic on it, that is not what I call progress. The transalp would have been a perfect base for an adv bike. Just bore it up to lets say 800cc (bmw gs, tiger), make a bigger fueltank, 21-17 inch, adjustable suspension (nothing fancy or electronic) and DONE.

Ah well, they'll never understand...
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:16 AM   #94
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spot on. Same here.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:50 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *thomas*
The transalp would have been a perfect base for an adv bike. Just bore it up to lets say 800cc (bmw gs, tiger), make a bigger fueltank, 21-17 inch, adjustable suspension (nothing fancy or electronic) and DONE.

Ah well, they'll never understand...
Sadly, you're right. The Africa Twin would be even a better model to update into an unbeatable ultimate ADV bike. Thing is, they just won't listen...
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:20 AM   #96
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If Put the Crosstourer and the Super Ten on some flipover paper, and hey presto, ground clearance is almost identical.

But what a difference in geometry, ive put Markers on the important points, and especially the swing arm pivot tells all about the Stability of the Super Ten off road, no wheelbase changement on compression at the rear :-)

But i would need cad drawings to be sure about wheelbase, could be thats perspective point of the Photo difference
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:21 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulasky
Mr. Honda... look and learn.

Sorry, but Mr. Honda remains quite dead.

However, he has been heard rumbling about the grave, somewhat annoyed by what the accountants, marketing types, attorneys, and engineers turned his once proud company into.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:33 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3ga
Sorry, but Mr. Honda remains quite dead.

However, he has been heard rumbling about the grave, somewhat annoyed by what the accountants, marketing types, attorneys, and engineers turned his once proud company into.
+1

Honda USED to be the powerhouse, with the best bikes, it's now not even a shadow of it's former self.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:55 AM   #99
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This is an important bike - but not half as important as the new CBR 125 and 250.
While old farts like me are spoilt for choice and have a wonderful selection of kit to piss my cash away on, the next generation of riders now have 2 fantastic, reliable and sexy bikes to bring them to the marque.
I for one thank Honda for covering all the bases and having the balls to bring new products to the market at this time.
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:56 AM   #100
mrbreeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul thompson
This is an important bike - but not half as important as the new CBR 125 and 250.
While old farts like me are spoilt for choice and have a wonderful selection of kit to piss my cash away on, the next generation of riders now have 2 fantastic, reliable and sexy bikes to bring them to the marque.
I for one thank Honda for covering all the bases and having the balls to bring new products to the market at this time.

Agreed, and well said!
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:25 AM   #101
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Small displacement bikes always good. However...
Honda avoiding huge segment of newcomers who may learn proper riding skills from the start. Missing by not making any single even lightweight supermoto bike. They seem to avoid any thought of it.
Every second beginner rider I know on this side of the pond (UK excluded - race reps country) dreaming about 690SM - like but can't afford it. Every one asking "is there some jap 250 motard?" and only answer to it is Yamaha WR overprised F model.
Why is that? Sumo is HUGE in Europe and allows to learn and ride better than any other type of bike. To be fair - Kawasaki and Suzuki miss that too, but at least Suzuki HAD DRZ-SM. And almost every EU manufacturer make motards.
If Honda would channel all this energy into simpler looking but even trickier to make bike properly aimed at wide segment!
I do not think those 2 bikes is contribution to building generation of riders with riding skills. Don't kid yourself - they just want more sales. They give no damn about WHAT novice will learn from those bikes.
IMHO smartest bike of this year is 125 cc KTM baby duke, not mamooths or "I will think for you" imitations of sportbikes. If only it'd come in 250cc...
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:36 AM   #102
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Isn't the CRF230 Motard model available in Europe? That seems like it would be fine as a beginner's bike.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:56 AM   #103
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I agree completely with the above statements about 125cc and 250cc bikes.

But honestly, this is not what this topic is about.

The fact that they do make big(ger) and (more) powerful bikes proves that they want to build such a bike... No one has 'ordered' them to do so. I am convinced that if they would abandon making these bikes and/or selling them in europe, aus and the US it would not make that much of a difference. I am not an economist, but it would mean development costs would go down, so would production costs... So, it really is their 'choice' to build those heavy, overpowered bikes almost no one asks for.

The technology they use on a 125cc or 250cc bike has to be good. Most profit for them lies in asia. What people in that part of the world want is a good, reliable and maintance free/low bike. And, not to much plastic, it'll break anyways.

I am sure this simple technology and minimalist thinking could be aplied easily on an adv bike. A 'let's go anywhere, anytime' bike.

So less plastic, simplify the electronics and engine and just make it go everywhere at a decent price (which would be the normal thing for a decent, but simple machine). They've done it in the past, so it does not look so difficult to do to me...

Sure, ABS, TCC and all other gizmos are nice, but make them all part of the accesory list.

And sure honda is not the only one, but they ATM are the best at making useless bikes... Not only because, as I said many times before, they are to overcomplicated, over developed, overpowered etc etc, but also because honda is at least 10 years late. Others have taken over the market.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:01 AM   #104
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Sorry about offtopic - RE: CRF230 motard...

No it is not available :(
Not in Germany. Not in Belgium. Not in France. Not in UK. Etc.
Not at all.
And even more. Not a SINGLE homologated light offroader here.
Off road use strictly 450s and 250s.
It is first time I ever hear about CRF230 motard, I swear.

The only ever bikes you can buy new that would somehow fit in is WR125X, XT125X, XT660R (thou it is not light bike) and offroad road legal WR250R. Kawasaki has offroad road legal KLX250S. Suzuki DR-Z125SM (actually not really capable of anything). So...where is 250-400 cc motard?
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:04 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
Ehm sorry to blow your party, but the beak is a NSU Suzuki ripoff, and in now way resembling the GS, no loose piping anywhere, if you want to compare it to a Beemer the RT is a more likeely Candidate.

But its mre of a Wstrom with a little quote of DR-Big beak :-)

Perfectly for the ST/VFR Toursport riders who want to sit more comfortable upright, but don't like the Massage of a stomping Twin.

It would not wonder me if the GS crowd will get a very ghard time in the Dolomites, and will be completely defaced on the Stelvio, especially on the downward southside ride :-)
Good point. You should include the S10 crowd here too (The S10 is a poor man's copy of the GS). The Honda will embarrass the S10 crowd as well.
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