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Old 11-05-2010, 06:10 PM   #1
Loadedagain OP
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Bluhduh guzzi spine frame custom build / discussion

some of you may have dropped by my other thread where i am "destroying a guzz", or depending when you're reading this "have succeeded in destroying a guzzi". either way you can or can chose not to check it out for a little background... http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605091

the hooligan bike i started building in september 2010. hopefullyq it will be completed structurally by the spring of 2011. i know it will never be completed.... rolling down the road under its own power. with me on it.

even before v1.0 was started there was talk of v2.0. lets discuss version 2.0! here's the thought -
  1. salt racer - for me bonneville is a dream. i have been there for work and one of my cars has hit 350mph. i personally have never been above 100mph on the salt. so v2.0 will be a salt masher!
  2. spine frame - the simple design of the spine frame is gorgeous. i like the mechanicals hanging out there for all to see. no point in mucking it all up with panels and trusses. this spine frame will be a one-off. there will be no gas tank. nothing unnecessary. just a hot usd front end and the required bits to make it go. don't get me wrong... it will look good enough to win shows. that's not the focus.
  3. hack - why the hell not? i'm pretty sure there aren't too many around. so lets be different. it'll be sleek and mechanical just like the frame. this is where the fuel, battery, and ancilliary will live. will it hold my dog, hookers, golf clubs? maybe... if we can make it look right.

there you go. while i have v1.0 frame bare i'm measuring and fabricating a jig. i have some tonti drawings i will post later... what do you lot think? here's the beginnings of v2.0 jig

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Loadedagain screwed with this post 11-05-2010 at 06:29 PM
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Old 11-05-2010, 07:49 PM   #2
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Great

This is going to be good.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:28 AM   #3
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These guys are a pretty good reference as a starting point



I imagine you will be running a Modified frame (under 68" wheelbase). Pick up one of these when you have a chance.



This is Guzzi's Looonnnggg swing-arm off the cruiser series. Or make one Of course you will eventually need a drive-shaft as-well

Rules is Rules:

Bub/AMA Rules

Tires

Aerodynamics

If you haven't been picking the brains of Tom Mellor and Geodoc, start. You have an amazing resource since Tom's numbers in the 750cc push-rod class make everyone else look silly.

If Mr Mellor even hints at moving up to the 1,000cc class, go slash all four tires on his Rolls Royce tow-car

There is some low hanging fruit in the Pushrod classes






PS - With your experience, the "Blown" Pushrod records might be easy meat (OK, nothing at Bonneville is easy, but you get the drift)

Just look for PBG or PBF at the end (Blown Gas and Blown Fuel)

The Fuel records are also much lower than one would think. I don't think there has been that big an effort to run the pushrod engines on the bottle.


Quote:
"2. E. FUELS
Acceptable fuels include alcohol, nitrous oxide, nitro-methane,
hydrogen, diesel and any gasoline not purchased from the meet
approved gasoline vendor. Violation of this fuels section is
grounds for disqualification. Nitrous oxide applications must
comply with crash protected shut-off valve requirement. Pay
special attention to heat proofing the Nitrous oxide tank."
Hmmmm...Nitrous + Alchy injection. An old aircooled motor might dig that...

...well, for a while
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Jinx screwed with this post 11-06-2010 at 12:48 AM
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:40 AM   #4
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I'm in the dark concerning Guzzi frames, what years were the spine frames? Got any side by side pic's of the different frame designs for us apprentices?
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:57 PM   #5
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PS - I don't know what you are going for exactly...but I always loved the "look" of this...



Wonder how that would look with some updated bits and a Guzzi lump?


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Old 11-06-2010, 04:04 PM   #6
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So, are you building a Spine frame or a Tonti?
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notarex
So, are you building a Spine frame or a Tonti?
yes.

i understand what you're saying... is this a spine frame or a tonti?

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Old 11-06-2010, 04:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx

If you haven't been picking the brains of Tom Mellor and Geodoc, start. You have an amazing resource since Tom's numbers in the 750cc push-rod class make everyone else look silly.

If Mr Mellor even hints at moving up to the 1,000cc class, go slash all four tires on his Rolls Royce tow-car
i gots good news and i gots bad news. i spent 4 hours at toms place today chatting with him and geodoc. to say i learned a little is a mild understatement!

i need to borrow a box cutter jinxy... note the stickers on the stern.

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Old 11-06-2010, 05:07 PM   #9
notarex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
is this a spine frame or a tonti?
Uhh... . I like the remaining triangle of the tonti. Fuel in the tube? I'm on board for this one
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
i gots good news and i gots bad news. i spent 4 hours at toms place today chatting with him and geodoc. to say i learned a little is a mild understatement!

i need to borrow a box cutter jinxy... note the stickers on the stern.
Son of a Bit.....he went as fast as faster than the 1,000cc M-PG and MPS-PG records with his 750



OK, make it a fuelie

Or put on a low pressure turbo

The Modified Pushrod Blown Gas record is only 143.36 mph

The Partially Streamlined (and, just so we can all shit ourselves laughing, Tom's Trident is the legal definition of partially streamlined) is only 148.981 mph

I believe that is called "low hanging fruit"

PS - There are no 1,000cc push-rod blown fuel records, so whoever runs that config first has the record

As you know, Bonneville is a wonderful, but weird, scene. Sometimes you get five different guys cutting each other's throats over the same gas record, and there are the fuel and blown records sitting there 30mph slower. Go figure

If the ultimate goal is 200mph that is probably the cheapest way to go (blown or fuel or both). You can go broke fast trying to rev a naturally aspirated gas Guzzi with 47mm valves past 10,000 rpm, plus it starts to get hard on the cylinder head (Dr John said when they were developing the 4V Racer the toughest thing was finding a cylinder head alloy that didn't try to melt itself with 130BHP).

The Guzzi bottom ends are plenty tough, so maybe make a 2-cylinder Porsche 930 3.0 RSR out of it. Run it on gas and then turn the boost up and add water/alcohol cooling injection injection and by the rules it's a blown fuelie. Two engines in one. Add and subtract a fairing and you can run 4 classes with the same bike. And I imagine the fuel delivery curves, cam profiles, comp ratios, etc are all fully scienced out for the Porsche and easy enough to get the specs on.

Or go slash his tires. My box-cutter is in the mail
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Jinx screwed with this post 11-06-2010 at 06:43 PM
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:58 PM   #11
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while the... what do i call it? version 1.0 sounds pretty dry! ... at any rate it's out for powder coating. i managed to find a tonti frame and ancilliary which used to live as an 850t for a whopping $25. i'd hate to see it go out with the trash so i'll use it to help with the jig, then hide it in the corner of the shop.

swing arm mounts measured up... bushings made... parts welded.



need to look closely at the tonti drawings. seems this older 850 frame has different rear mounting dimensions. with my trans mount in place from the '84 1000sp the holes are 5mm off from rear tube to side tubes! the rear frame cross member is installed on the front of the rear down tubes on this bike, where it is "fish-mouthed" on the newer frame. if you care please ask and i'll post pics of the difference.

here's a shot without the frame...

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Old 12-04-2010, 03:50 PM   #12
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thought i would drop this pic here for reference...

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Old 12-04-2010, 05:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonny View Post
I'm in the dark concerning Guzzi frames, what years were the spine frames? Got any side by side pic's of the different frame designs for us apprentices?

Spine frames started with Dr. John, developed from a race rig that he designed and built then moved on to become the '95 Sport, that configuration remained into '96 and finally with the '97 as the last iteration of the 1100 Sport and Sporti (injected) and then onto the V11 Sports which are Spine frames as well... Long story.

More later, I'm watching Green Zone...

Read this in the mean time...
 
 
http://www.guzzitube.com/gtubeshop/i...ndex&cPath=103
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radguzzi screwed with this post 12-04-2010 at 05:31 PM
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:59 PM   #14
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Wow, that was a pretty intence flick... Geebuz...!



Ok, so back to Guzzis.... Sorry for the short hi-jack there.

Loaded,
A friend of mine here bult a combination of a Tonti and a Spine, mono-shock rear frame for a racer, engine was a stessed member of the assembly, quite a piece of work.

I'll dig up some photos of it and post 'em to ya.

That Hi-cam Spiney that you posted with the USD forks and all that has the original design "porkchop" plates that Dr. John had first milled and they carried through into production on the Spine framed Guzzis...

Cool stuff...

Best,
Rob

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Old 09-18-2012, 12:31 PM   #15
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mmmm guuuuzzzzii

hi , just about to venture into the world of guzzi spine frame ownership. do you have any more details on that moto bel piece of work. tis ossum that is.
cheers, hotballs
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