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Old 06-19-2014, 03:36 AM   #121
Tinker1980
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So, as I was destroying my countersink bit trying to countersink the stainless sprocket I made, I discovered something that I think is contributing to my bad fuel mileage.

I happened to turn toward the bike just in time to see gasoline spray onto the ground, exactly as if my DR was a horse, taking a leak. I was a few feet away, and didn't see what it came from, but it looked like airbox area, behind the carb.

This bike has a TM40 on it, and when I went to check it, I noticed the petcock was open. This is a non-vacuum petcock on an IMS tank, on is really ON even without the engine running. Engine was cold, but had recently been started to move it into the shop, and about 40 miles shy of a full tank.



Does anyone know where I should look?
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:16 PM   #122
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TM40 AP rod

Was checking the gap on the AP rod and the actuating lever on my new TM40, and noticed that the rod doesn't return to the fully up position after the initial AP stroke. It stays down off of the lever about 5-6mm which causes it not to work till past 1/4 throttle. I can move the rod back up with my finger, but after it actuates the AP the first time it stays down. Anyone else ever see this?
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:45 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dflow View Post
I have used the following method of checking the fuel level of a couple of DRs recently. It's a handy way to check, compare or establish a baseline to reference later. The picture shows the stock BST carb but any carb with a drain nipple and screw on the bowl will work. Attach a length of clear tubing and loop it upwards and hold it there by whatever means. The upper end of the tubing is left open. Now open the drain screw on the carb bowl and set your petcock to prime (if stock) or on/res (if aftermarket). Allow any air bubbles to clear and view the fuel level. Be sure to level the bike and square-up your camera to avoid distortion when registering the level relative to features on the carb body.

You still may need to open the carb to adjust the float height if yours seems to be far from the image shown but at least you know before hand.
I have not checked the float height on either of the bikes mentioned by traditional means in well over 30k miles each so there is no assurance that they are still within the acceptable range. That being said, I have had no issues that would indicate a problem and so it serves as a sound baseline check for me.
Nice method. Would be sweet if someone verified their float to be exact factory spec & then took that pic. That would give all of of best users a visual baseline & fast check 1st step in tuning.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:35 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
Was checking the gap on the AP rod and the actuating lever on my new TM40, and noticed that the rod doesn't return to the fully up position after the initial AP stroke. It stays down off of the lever about 5-6mm which causes it not to work till past 1/4 throttle. I can move the rod back up with my finger, but after it actuates the AP the first time it stays down. Anyone else ever see this?

Update. After a closer inspection, I found that the edge of the rubber boot between the airbox and the carb was actually pressing on the lower section of the AP rod preventing it from fully returning to the up position. Working correctly now.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:42 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
BST carb - Off-idle bog issues and things to check:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=74911
Dang it Im still missing out on all the BST issues,mine still doesnt bog,the plugs have great color,the bike pulls to 90 mph quick enough and gets 50mpg most all the time.
Ive never even drilled the plug out over the fuel screw,so its all oem settings.
Even the snorkle still sits there,smirking at me. And works great in deep water and at keeping dust out of the airbox.


Must be a freak of nature to still be running great at 29,000 miles with no airbox/exhaust/carb work?
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:46 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Tinker1980 View Post
35 front 35 rear.

I was incorrect about the air box - the side cover is present, the top is cut out. I think the problem may have been my air filter - I took it out today after riding home from work, and went to clean it (K&N) and it nearly held water. Got it soaped and cleaned out, it is drying out right now. I'll oil it up and run a tankful or two through it to see if there is a change, but I'm betting there will be a noticeable change in the idle.
On the swingarm ,there is a sticker. I just looked at it the other day. Factory says 22psi for solo,25psi for passenger.

I have been running 29psi with the shinkos on my DR,might try the 23

as a happy medium between dirt roads and pavemento,nicer ride on sharp bumps and all.
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Foot dragger screwed with this post 07-17-2014 at 04:51 PM
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:23 AM   #127
SDIZZY
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fuel screw

Hey all, I bought my 09 used, and pretty sure the PO did some jetting, I know the airbox has been cut and a K&n filter.

Anyone have a photo of where I can find fuel screw, to determine if it has been drilled or no? I'll be chaning the plugs and washing the air filter this weekend.

I get about 42mpg, sea level.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:54 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDIZZY View Post
Hey all, I bought my 09 used, and pretty sure the PO did some jetting, I know the airbox has been cut and a K&n filter.

Anyone have a photo of where I can find fuel screw, to determine if it has been drilled or no? I'll be chaning the plugs and washing the air filter this weekend.

I get about 42mpg, sea level.
Stolen from the internet, but this photo shows where the fuel screw is assuming you have the stock BST40 carby. This carby in the photo has an extended screw fitted after being unplugged.

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Old 07-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kezzajohnson View Post
Stolen from the internet, but this photo shows where the fuel screw is assuming you have the stock BST40 carby. This carby in the photo has an extended screw fitted after being unplugged.

Ok I'm looking at mine, there's no screw there but I see threads. Maybe PO did it and it fell out?

Someone wrote on the carb there "2 1/2 out"

Am I missing pieces?



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Old 07-17-2014, 03:30 PM   #130
BergDonk
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Kezza's pic has a lengthened aftermarket screw fitted. Yours should have a screw 'up the hole' which is a bit hard to get to, hence the use of the aftermarket fix.
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:48 PM   #131
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDIZZY View Post
Ok I'm looking at mine, there's no screw there but I see threads. Maybe PO did it and it fell out?

Someone wrote on the carb there "2 1/2 out"

Am I missing pieces?
There's a complete description, with photos of what you need, in post #71 of this thread.
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:11 PM   #132
Lobster
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My saga with the jet kit

All,

I was asked to perhaps post a summary of all my woes with the jet kit in one spot so it is easy for others to read what I've gone through and also easier for anyone who might want to comment about possible solutions. I had 3 or 4 posts about it in the big thread and they kinda got lost. I hope this is a more appropriate / concise place to post em...


POST #1

Finally got my motor back together this weekend...and believe it or not, she runs! But I have a tuning question I need help with please.

Exhaust bolt - fixed
NSU screws - loctited
JE high comp piston - installed
ring gaps @ 0.016, aligned per JE instructions
metal base gasket - installed
all new gaskets
new oil filter with magnet
new magnetic drain plug
Pro Cycle Jet kit
Airbox opened
New air filter
New carb breather filter
150 main jet
slide drilled
fuel mixture screw set at 2 turns out
GSXR exhaust
header pipe weld ground down a little bit (cooked my dremel!)

Believe it or not, she fired right up after getting put back together without even choking the carb! Seemed to idle just fine. The throttle reacts crisp and clear when in neutral.

Riding, there is a noticeable hesitation / bogging at partial throttle. The first crack at the throttle is fine, then there is a slight bog, then it totally rips. I played around with the fuel mixture screw and now have it at 2.5 turns out....still does it...not just as bad.

I didn't use new gas...and I didn't use high octane gas.

I'm open for ideas. I hope the solution doesn't involve pulling the carb as getting that air box back in is a colossal pain in the *ss!

I'm not a tuning expert...lean or rich? Please help!


POST #2

Plugs are brand new.
.025 gap tool fits, .030 gap tool doesn't - I assumed gap is OK
I would guess 1/8 - 1/4 is the throttle area where I have the problem


POST #3

Update...

Spent all morning playing around with it. Going to the #3 needle position made it NOTICEABLY worse. I then went to the #5 position and it was about the same as the #4.

I remembered reading about the main air tube for the carb and having the breather filter too close to the main air intake filter could cause some pulsing issues. So I moved the breather filter down under the carb behind the cylinder, put the needle back to the #4 position and tried going with the 155 jet. (I know the main jet isn't supposed to be an issue but I tried it anyway...) I even had a little popping on decal once hot which tells me it likely isn't too rich.

The combination above seems to have the best response so far. The bike totally rips once past 1/8 throttle, but there is still a hesitation or bogging just off idle.

I tried the trick with screwing in the air jet until the idle drops and then backing out until it's clear...so with that said, it's hard for me to nail down exactly where it is.

I think maybe the next step is to go to #5 needle, with the 155 jet, new high octane fuel, and the idle air screw at 2-2.5 turns out and then report back. However, I'm open to any suggestions at this point...(I'm getting pretty good at making these adjustments with the carb still on the bike...)

One question I do have is how to properly adjust the idle screw if both the idle air screw and the idle adjustment both impact the idle? Is it possible I have those to two somehow jacked around and giving me this issue?

Thanks for the help


The last comment I got was to perhaps jack up the idle, but the weather hasn't been cooperating for a test ride. I'm all ears! Thanks.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:37 PM   #133
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobster View Post
I was asked to perhaps post a summary of all my woes with the jet kit in one spot so it is easy for others to read what I've gone through and also easier for anyone who might want to comment about possible solutions.
Thanks for agreeing to do that. I really appreciate it.
Quote:
JE high comp piston - installed
Considering the multiple reports of audible detonation on stock DR650s, I would not raise the compression.
Quote:
Pro Cycle Jet kit
I don't recommend the DynoJet needle that comes in the Pro Cycle kit because:

1) It's the wrong shape and produces significant variances in mixture strength throughout the rpm range, specifically richer toward the bottom of the rpm range than toward the upper.

2) It's made out of stainless steel which means more emulsion tube wear than with an aluminum needle.

3) It doesn't use the white plastic spacer under the clip, which means the needle is not preloaded in the downstream direction, and will therefore be more prone to orbiting/otherwise gyrating inside the emulsion tube. It also means that the needle will not be able to pivot out of the way as the slide guide wears. Both of these factors equate more emulsion tube wear.
Quote:
Airbox opened
Considering the multiple reports of audible detonation on stock DR650s, I would not recommend increasing cylinder filling unless sufficient measures were undertaken to improve detonation resistance.
Quote:
150 main jet
This will be too lean for the cut airbox, contributing to increased detonation risk/severity.
Quote:
slide drilled
Slide guide wear is pretty much proportional to lift hole area, so drilling the slide will dramatically increase slide guide, emulsion tube and slide wear. Dynamometer testing I have performed on a late model DR650 also showed that it caused a loss in hp at 1/4 opening and richened the mixture at 1/8 opening in not easily correctable manner.
Quote:
fuel mixture screw set at 2 turns out
Start the engine, let it warm up and ride the bike around until it's hot. Using the idle speed screw, adjust the idle speed to 1500 rpm. Coming from the lean side, adjust the fuel screw so that the strongest idle is achieved. You will notice there is a threshold where it becomes rich enough (enough turns out) to run strongest, beyond which no change is noticed. Adjust the idle mixture screw ~1/8-1/4 turn out from this threshold. Adjust the idle speed back to 1500 rpm (as it is likely to have changed).
Quote:
GSXR exhaust
header pipe weld ground down a little bit
These are steps in the right direction, but are not likely to be enough to prevent detonation with a cut airbox, let alone with increased compression. To put this in perspective, the last DR650 I had on my dyno, with a cut airbox, an FMF slip-on with the insert removed, and the mixture tuned correctly, had NOx values that I would consider to be risky if not dangerous.
Quote:
Believe it or not, she fired right up after getting put back together without even choking the carb!
It sounds like the idle mixture is too rich.
Quote:
Riding, there is a noticeable hesitation / bogging at partial throttle. The first crack at the throttle is fine, then there is a slight bog, then it totally rips. I played around with the fuel mixture screw and now have it at 2.5 turns out....still does it...not just as bad.
You should not try to fix mixture problems at other that idle with the fuel screw. That said, you've got other problems to address before you should realistically be thinking about tuning.
Quote:
I didn't use new gas...and I didn't use high octane gas.
Considering the significant detonation risk presented by your setup as it is, that probably didn't help.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:54 AM   #134
Lobster
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Derek, thanks.

I would like to hear some suggestions for how you think the problems I have created should be fixed.
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:06 PM   #135
eakins
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Not necessarily. Sortta looks like the plug is pulled out and the access to the factory fuel screw. A small flathead is used to turn it out 2.5 turns. The extended fuel screw just allows you to adjust it by hand, but is not needed. I'm guessing you'll see the factory screw (flat head screwdriver) slot, up in there.

Use a flat head screwdriver bit w/ bit holder and 3/4" to 1/4" socket adapter to adjust or verify.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDIZZY View Post
Ok I'm looking at mine, there's no screw there but I see threads. Maybe PO did it and it fell out?

Someone wrote on the carb there "2 1/2 out"

Am I missing pieces?



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