92 Seca II possible electrical problem

ike6116 · 11-10-2010, 10:52 PM

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster.

I'll try to make this as detailed as possible but also not wall of text you, wish me luck.

A friend of mine gave me a 92 Seca II (pretty boss friend eh?) and after cleaning the carbs, replacing the intake boots and replacing the battery she ran! (Cold blooded but once she got warm it was awesome being on my first bike, riding back and forth to work and around on the weekends)

Then I began experiencing this problem, it first started when I was on the highway, I was cruising along at about 75-80 when all of a sudden I twisted the throttle and nothing was there, I pinned it wide open and I had a max speed of about 65, luckily my exit was right there so I pulled in the clutch to down shift and it just died. I rolled down the offramp and tried to start her back up to no avail. I called a buddy to come get me and about 10 minutes before he got there, I tried again, the bike started up and ran fine the rest of the way home, being a novice I thought "maybe I overheated it or something."

The next day, same highway, other direction (going to work) same thing happens. This time I can't get it started without a friend coming and jumping the bike with jumper cables. I ride home backroads this time just fine and figure, "ok it's just on the highway, Ill go to work and get the bike looked at this weekend." I ride to work no problem.

On the way home the problem happens again but this time it's on back roads at low speeds. Same thing all of a sudden no throttle and when I pull in the clutch it just dies, I limp (by down shifting and popping the clutch to kick it back on) a bit it dies. A friend comes and jumps me and it comes back on but I have to keep the thing revving and revving to stay on and I can go no faster than about 15. Shifting into 3rd kills it, being at a stop light too long and it dies the second I let out the clutch even though I had been revving like a mad-man just to keep it alive. It's done. jumper cables don't do it, have to get the bike towed back home.

The guy who gave me the bike says he experienced issues like this himself and is convinced it's an electrical problem but says he used to be able to "jiggle some wires around and get the bike started again." I tried that obviously when I was on the side of the road and no dice.

Now the bike is sitting in my garage, taunting me.

I have bought a trickle charger and a multimeter, I have the Clymer manual for my bike and want to do the electrical testing but I can't get the bike started. The bike does have spark but I do believe the bike is woefully low on fuel from when I took the tank off and set it on a trash can, it wasn't leaking at the time but there's now about an inch of gas in my yard waste trash can.

The only electrical test I've been able to do that the manual says is to disconnect the negative battery terminal and connect the multimeter. It said there should be no more than a 0.1 mA draw but the multimeter read 0.4 mA.

Any help or suggestions you guys could throw my way would be greatly appreciated, Im jonesin hard to get back in the saddle and taking public transportation sucks. Thanks if you read this far.

Flashmo · 11-11-2010, 07:05 AM

My wife has a '94, good bikes.

I have no help on the electrical problem.

For your cold startup, try the 10cent re-jet. It's a white-trash needle shim for the carbs, but it works like a charm! If you can't find it on the net, PM me and I will help you out. Literally cost me about $1.00 to get her bike running like a champ even before fully warmed up (Yamaha jetted them super lean to meet emission standards for import).

edit: After re-reading your post, I would look at the regulator/rectifier. Had the same issue on my CBR a couple years ago.

StarFleet · 11-11-2010, 01:18 PM

I'm curious as to any input on this problem as well. Sounds like a similar problem that I had.

Jonex · 11-11-2010, 07:59 PM

Seca eye eye's were jetted RIDICULOUSLY lean by Yamaha. I worked in a Yamaha shop and I put new ones together out of the crate, and every one of 'em ran like poop. I started yanking the carbs while the bike was still in the crate so I could drill out the idle mix plugs and richen the poor things up.

You could very well have dirty carbs again - rusty tank? Tank rust will hoke things all up. Clean the tank. Clean the carbs. Put in an inline fuel filter if you don't have one.

Seca II's are nice (slow as molasses in January, but nice). Keep at 'er.

dinozaur · 11-11-2010, 09:23 PM

I have no advice, but on my '92 Seca II all the dash lights would turn on when the bike was leaned over more than a couple degrees. My theory is the electrical system was assembled by monkeys. Fun fun bike though.

Beezer · 11-11-2010, 11:20 PM

Empty the tank & check for rust. Also try to figure out if the fuel leak came from the petcock or from rust holes. If it leaks try POR15 tank sealer. Clean the filter on the petcock, Be sure the vent is clear. Not a bad idea to replace all the fuel hoses too. I don't remember if that has a vacuum operated shutoff, but think it does.

Pull the carbs & clean them... do some research on how. Not hard, just work. Like Sonnex suggests... drill out the little covers over the idle mix screws while you have the carbs off. Drill a small hole in the plug & drive a wood screw in for a lever to pry out the plug. The plug is only about 1/16 thick, do not drill into the adjuster screw underneath.

Check the battery for state of charge. Also put it on a charger and be sure it will take and hold a decent charge. If it is more than a couple years old it is prolly crap, especially if not well maintained. If the battery is OK, put a meter on the bike when running to see if the charging system is working.

If it isn't these things I would look at the coils next... seems to be related to a certain amount of run time which suggests heat build up.

treefort13 · 11-12-2010, 09:38 AM

I had a similar problem with a 1983 Maxim. Turned out to be a faulty kill switch. I bypassed it and haven't had a problem since.

ike6116 · 11-17-2010, 07:30 PM

So I got it started, turns out if you bother to look you can fix obvious problems, the fuel line was kinked weirdly which is why it wasn't turning over. Carbs like fuel so I hear.

Anyways I did one of the electric tests in my manual (getting the bike up to 5k RPM and taking a reading on from the battery on the multimeter)

it read 13.45 volts the chart in the back says it should read 14 volts, more and replace the rectifier less and move on to the stator resistance test.

I haven't done that test yet but I was just wondering if that sounds to you guys like it could be my problem or is it just something that is ALSO wrong on this old bike? I don't know enough about electrical or bikes or really anything to know if 13.45 is really materially different than 14. If that seemingly small of a difference would lead to such a problem.

Definitely glad I now have a trickle charger and multimeter now either way.

Thanks for all the input so far also, I sometimes get pretty down about this whole DIY thing because I hate flying so blind and really not knowing anything. Your posts make me put my head down and keep powering through.

Flashmo · 11-17-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike6116

So I got it started, turns out if you bother to look you can fix obvious problems, the fuel line was kinked weirdly which is why it wasn't turning over. Carbs like fuel so I hear.

Anyways I did one of the electric tests in my manual (getting the bike up to 5k RPM and taking a reading on from the battery on the multimeter)

it read 13.45 volts the chart in the back says it should read 14 volts, more and replace the rectifier less and move on to the stator resistance test.

I haven't done that test yet but I was just wondering if that sounds to you guys like it could be my problem or is it just something that is ALSO wrong on this old bike? I don't know enough about electrical or bikes or really anything to know if 13.45 is really materially different than 14. If that seemingly small of a difference would lead to such a problem.

Definitely glad I now have a trickle charger and multimeter now either way.

Thanks for all the input so far also, I sometimes get pretty down about this whole DIY thing because I hate flying so blind and really not knowing anything. Your posts make me put my head down and keep powering through.

Just make sure that you were checking the voltage as the manual stated, and presumably with the battery out of the system. If you check voltage on a small guage wire on a bike, you will see a voltage drop compared to what the system is actually generating.

13.45 should be enough to run the bike and charge everything, but 14.00 is preferred. One thing to watch, bikes charge at higher rpms, which is why you had to do the test at 5,000rpms. When my wife goes and plays in a parking lot doing skills practice, she often comes home with a dead battery from running too long at low rpms and idling. When it is ridden normally, it goes for weeks without me putting it on the Tender for a little preventative maintenance. I had to teach her to pull the headlight fuse if she is doing parking lot drills.

Toolpen · 11-19-2010, 08:29 AM

A voltage reading of 13.43 (at 5000 rpm) indicates a charging system problem as Yamaha specifies a charging voltage of 14.3-15.3 volts. If the stator coil readings are within spec, I think you may be having an issue with the voltage regulator. I had a Seca II and burnt up the voltage regulator while running the bike in my shop while testing a new ignition system tester. With no air flow passing along the voltage regulator, heat killed it. When I run one of these bikes now in the shop, I remove the side cover and put a fan on the voltage regulator. Neat bike. Wish I still had mine.

ike6116 · 11-19-2010, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolpen

A voltage reading of 13.43 (at 5000 rpm) indicates a charging system problem as Yamaha specifies a charging voltage of 14.3-15.3 volts. If the stator coil readings are within spec, I think you may be having an issue with the voltage regulator. I had a Seca II and burnt up the voltage regulator while running the bike in my shop while testing a new ignition system tester. With no air flow passing along the voltage regulator, heat killed it. When I run one of these bikes now in the shop, I remove the side cover and put a fan on the voltage regulator. Neat bike. Wish I still had mine.

Thanks Toolpen, just out of curiosity would a bad regulator and or stator explain the problem I was having (not of starting the bike but having it just lose power and eventually die while riding)?

Flashmo · 11-19-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike6116

Thanks Toolpen, just out of curiosity would a bad regulator and or stator explain the problem I was having (not of starting the bike but having it just lose power and eventually die while riding)?

Yes. If you can charge the battery, start the bike, and it dies while running around, it's usually the reg/rec.

It will have most likely zapped most of the good life out of your battery as well. In the past, I have had to replace both as battery was well toasted from being continually run down to nothing.

superskip · 11-19-2010, 05:44 PM

A failing igniter can have similar symptoms to what you've experienced ...

Toolpen · 11-19-2010, 05:46 PM

+1 to Flashmo's response. If you can charge the battery and start/ride the motorcycle, but it dies while running, the charging system (if it is the problem) is not capable of maintaining the battery charge at an adequate level. Have you checked the battery voltage after the bike dies? The results would be a good indicator of the battery's condition at that time. I made a long set of test leads that I can attach between my digital voltmeter (taped to the fuel tank) and battery that allows me to read the voltage while testing a motorycycle. One of my biggest rants is that manufacturer's (for the most part anyway) don't put some type of charge indicator light on motorcycles. Of course, you can install an aftermarket charge indicator.

ike6116 · 11-21-2010, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the help so far guys, it really does mean a lot to me.

I did the stator resistance test and got readings of 0.9, 0.8 and 0.9

The thing is the manual says

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clymer Manual

To obtain an accurate resistance measurement, the stator assembly must be at approximately 20° C (68° F).

@68° F eh? Well, I live in Massachusetts and I can tell you my garage was probably somewhere around 38° F today. The specified range is:

0.32-0.48 ohms @ 20° C (68° F)

So I turn to you guys again for your shared wisdom. Are my measurements meaningless? Does that sound about right for the temperature difference? Does the temperature really not matter that much and the resistance is clearly off?

11-10-2010, 10:52 PM	#1
ike6116 ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: Waltham MA Oddometer: 47	92 Seca II possible electrical problem Hello all, long time lurker first time poster. I'll try to make this as detailed as possible but also not wall of text you, wish me luck. A friend of mine gave me a 92 Seca II (pretty boss friend eh?) and after cleaning the carbs, replacing the intake boots and replacing the battery she ran! (Cold blooded but once she got warm it was awesome being on my first bike, riding back and forth to work and around on the weekends) Then I began experiencing this problem, it first started when I was on the highway, I was cruising along at about 75-80 when all of a sudden I twisted the throttle and nothing was there, I pinned it wide open and I had a max speed of about 65, luckily my exit was right there so I pulled in the clutch to down shift and it just died. I rolled down the offramp and tried to start her back up to no avail. I called a buddy to come get me and about 10 minutes before he got there, I tried again, the bike started up and ran fine the rest of the way home, being a novice I thought "maybe I overheated it or something." The next day, same highway, other direction (going to work) same thing happens. This time I can't get it started without a friend coming and jumping the bike with jumper cables. I ride home backroads this time just fine and figure, "ok it's just on the highway, Ill go to work and get the bike looked at this weekend." I ride to work no problem. On the way home the problem happens again but this time it's on back roads at low speeds. Same thing all of a sudden no throttle and when I pull in the clutch it just dies, I limp (by down shifting and popping the clutch to kick it back on) a bit it dies. A friend comes and jumps me and it comes back on but I have to keep the thing revving and revving to stay on and I can go no faster than about 15. Shifting into 3rd kills it, being at a stop light too long and it dies the second I let out the clutch even though I had been revving like a mad-man just to keep it alive. It's done. jumper cables don't do it, have to get the bike towed back home. The guy who gave me the bike says he experienced issues like this himself and is convinced it's an electrical problem but says he used to be able to "jiggle some wires around and get the bike started again." I tried that obviously when I was on the side of the road and no dice. Now the bike is sitting in my garage, taunting me. I have bought a trickle charger and a multimeter, I have the Clymer manual for my bike and want to do the electrical testing but I can't get the bike started. The bike does have spark but I do believe the bike is woefully low on fuel from when I took the tank off and set it on a trash can, it wasn't leaking at the time but there's now about an inch of gas in my yard waste trash can. The only electrical test I've been able to do that the manual says is to disconnect the negative battery terminal and connect the multimeter. It said there should be no more than a 0.1 mA draw but the multimeter read 0.4 mA. Any help or suggestions you guys could throw my way would be greatly appreciated, Im jonesin hard to get back in the saddle and taking public transportation sucks. Thanks if you read this far.

11-12-2010, 09:38 AM	#7
treefort13 Rerutnevda ylranG Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Lawrence, KS Oddometer: 913	I had a similar problem with a 1983 Maxim. Turned out to be a faulty kill switch. I bypassed it and haven't had a problem since. __________________ [Somebody hurry up and post something new;] I've been sitting here cross legged for 3 hours clicking refresh like a crack addicted lab rat. -AntWare- One Man's trash is another man's soon-to-be-regreted purchase. Racer1

11-19-2010, 05:44 PM	#13
superskip Adventurer Joined: Jun 2009 Location: A Place of Nice Shrubberies Oddometer: 43	Don't forget the 'igniter' A failing igniter can have similar symptoms to what you've experienced ... __________________ I have words in my head, so I [type] them - Kiki Dee

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11-11-2010, 07:05 AM	#2
Flashmo Whatever... Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Vagabond Hippie Oddometer: 2,503	My wife has a '94, good bikes. I have no help on the electrical problem. For your cold startup, try the 10cent re-jet. It's a white-trash needle shim for the carbs, but it works like a charm! If you can't find it on the net, PM me and I will help you out. Literally cost me about $1.00 to get her bike running like a champ even before fully warmed up (Yamaha jetted them super lean to meet emission standards for import). edit: After re-reading your post, I would look at the regulator/rectifier. Had the same issue on my CBR a couple years ago.

11-11-2010, 01:18 PM	#3
StarFleet Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2010 Location: West Coast / East Coast Oddometer: 185	I'm curious as to any input on this problem as well. Sounds like a similar problem that I had.

11-11-2010, 07:59 PM	#4
Jonex zipper suited sun god Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Central Wisconsin Oddometer: 1,351	Seca eye eye's were jetted RIDICULOUSLY lean by Yamaha. I worked in a Yamaha shop and I put new ones together out of the crate, and every one of 'em ran like poop. I started yanking the carbs while the bike was still in the crate so I could drill out the idle mix plugs and richen the poor things up. You could very well have dirty carbs again - rusty tank? Tank rust will hoke things all up. Clean the tank. Clean the carbs. Put in an inline fuel filter if you don't have one. Seca II's are nice (slow as molasses in January, but nice). Keep at 'er.

11-11-2010, 09:23 PM	#5
dinozaur Adventurer Joined: Jul 2008 Location: Manassas, VA Oddometer: 11	I have no advice, but on my '92 Seca II all the dash lights would turn on when the bike was leaned over more than a couple degrees. My theory is the electrical system was assembled by monkeys. Fun fun bike though.

11-11-2010, 11:20 PM	#6
Beezer Beastly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Anchorage, formerly Spenard (hub of the universe) Oddometer: 4,479	Empty the tank & check for rust. Also try to figure out if the fuel leak came from the petcock or from rust holes. If it leaks try POR15 tank sealer. Clean the filter on the petcock, Be sure the vent is clear. Not a bad idea to replace all the fuel hoses too. I don't remember if that has a vacuum operated shutoff, but think it does. Pull the carbs & clean them... do some research on how. Not hard, just work. Like Sonnex suggests... drill out the little covers over the idle mix screws while you have the carbs off. Drill a small hole in the plug & drive a wood screw in for a lever to pry out the plug. The plug is only about 1/16 thick, do not drill into the adjuster screw underneath. Check the battery for state of charge. Also put it on a charger and be sure it will take and hold a decent charge. If it is more than a couple years old it is prolly crap, especially if not well maintained. If the battery is OK, put a meter on the bike when running to see if the charging system is working. If it isn't these things I would look at the coils next... seems to be related to a certain amount of run time which suggests heat build up.

11-17-2010, 07:30 PM	#8
ike6116 ^OP Adventurer Joined: Sep 2010 Location: Waltham MA Oddometer: 47	So I got it started, turns out if you bother to look you can fix obvious problems, the fuel line was kinked weirdly which is why it wasn't turning over. Carbs like fuel so I hear. Anyways I did one of the electric tests in my manual (getting the bike up to 5k RPM and taking a reading on from the battery on the multimeter) it read 13.45 volts the chart in the back says it should read 14 volts, more and replace the rectifier less and move on to the stator resistance test. I haven't done that test yet but I was just wondering if that sounds to you guys like it could be my problem or is it just something that is ALSO wrong on this old bike? I don't know enough about electrical or bikes or really anything to know if 13.45 is really materially different than 14. If that seemingly small of a difference would lead to such a problem. Definitely glad I now have a trickle charger and multimeter now either way. Thanks for all the input so far also, I sometimes get pretty down about this whole DIY thing because I hate flying so blind and really not knowing anything. Your posts make me put my head down and keep powering through.

11-19-2010, 08:29 AM	#10
Toolpen Adventurer Joined: Apr 2010 Oddometer: 85	A voltage reading of 13.43 (at 5000 rpm) indicates a charging system problem as Yamaha specifies a charging voltage of 14.3-15.3 volts. If the stator coil readings are within spec, I think you may be having an issue with the voltage regulator. I had a Seca II and burnt up the voltage regulator while running the bike in my shop while testing a new ignition system tester. With no air flow passing along the voltage regulator, heat killed it. When I run one of these bikes now in the shop, I remove the side cover and put a fan on the voltage regulator. Neat bike. Wish I still had mine.

11-19-2010, 05:46 PM	#14
Toolpen Adventurer Joined: Apr 2010 Oddometer: 85	+1 to Flashmo's response. If you can charge the battery and start/ride the motorcycle, but it dies while running, the charging system (if it is the problem) is not capable of maintaining the battery charge at an adequate level. Have you checked the battery voltage after the bike dies? The results would be a good indicator of the battery's condition at that time. I made a long set of test leads that I can attach between my digital voltmeter (taped to the fuel tank) and battery that allows me to read the voltage while testing a motorycycle. One of my biggest rants is that manufacturer's (for the most part anyway) don't put some type of charge indicator light on motorcycles. Of course, you can install an aftermarket charge indicator.